All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Electricmastro]

It has nothing to do with "taking you word" or you taking mine -- it has to do with the facts I just presented regarding police officers routinely violating the civil rights of African-Americans and how the "community" (and Obama) addressed that directly before Trump attempted to roll back said reform and oversight.

Hope you use your facts to help serve your community to the best of your ability.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

If people did the same to Sanders, we'd never hear the end of it -- they spend the entire debate trashing other Democrats (like Biden and Harris) and expect Sanders to be treated like some untouchable politician, when he's just another candidate with pros and cons like all the rest.

Then they wonder why people complain more about Sanders' supporters than about Sanders.

Here’s the difference

This critique on Harris is

1. A fact
2. A matter of public record in the court system along with some video evidence

This is a fake counter. The idea that a real documented fact is irrelevant if someone simply can show a bad website or news source using it, is ridiculous.

You guys are making a blatantly dishonest point here and then running it back to Sanders. And again nobody is talking about Sanders in regards this. So it’s just the usual suspects doing the same things

[aja_christopher]

Here’s the difference

This critique on Harris is

1. A fact
2. A matter of public record in the court system along with some video evidence

Well, it's a fact that Sanders is having issues paying the $15 minimum wage he promised, but I don't see people constantly bashing the fact that if he can't even pay his own staff based on his own policies, why should we trust him to do the same with the nation at large?

Point being, most of us don't spend our time bashing Sanders because we understand the real problem isn't Biden or Harris, it's the Republican party.

All that divisiveness isn't doing anything positive for your candidate -- it's just repeating the same mistakes from 2016.

I'll also add that I find it personally offensive that you keep invoking "African-Americans" in your arguments against Harris when you've never really shown that kind of concern before on other issues -- not saying you can't do so, but it seems like you only bring it up in order to attack the politics of others.

It's like watching the whole "superpredators" stupidity play out again -- repeating the same mistakes will get you the same poor results.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The reason she hasn't gotten a "groundswell" is the same reason Booker hasn't gotten a "groundswell" -- a lot of black voters are pragmatic, and at this point Biden looks like the best choice to beat Trump in a general election.

Likewise with regards to his experience and stability, which is something a lot of older voters -- black or otherwise -- prefer in a candidate and they are the ones who show up to vote. If young people show up and vote, then they can change that dynamic, but until then it's about older voters showing up and voting for more moderate candidates.

Obama got that "groundswell of support" once he showed he could win both the nomination and the presidency -- most black voters vote for a candidate they think can win and who represents their values, not just because they are "black" like Booker, Harris, Carson, Keyes, Cain, Jackson (etc).

I've read that many black voters are more conservative in their voting choices because they have a lot more to lose when people like Trump win the election - it's hard to preach "green energy" to voters who are still working on achieving basic civil rights.

-----
"Even after first debates, Joe Biden still holds a 20-point lead with black voters"

"It would be easy to say Biden's black voter base exists merely because he was Barack Obama's vice president. That certainly helps, but there's probably more to it than that.

Biden's more moderate ideology compared to other leading Democratic presidential contenders gives him an edge with black voters, who are some of the most conservative voters in the Democratic coalition. He also does best with non-college graduates; more black voters than white voters lack a college degree.

Now, it's not all good news for Biden. Biden's black voter advantage has shrunk compared to what it was before the first debate, down about 10 points compared to where he was in the spring. Harris, meanwhile, is up about the same amount (a little more than 10 points) with African Americans."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/13/polit...sis/index.html

So I see a lot of words I made about a post where 90% of the content of said post was that this particular criticism of Harris is accurate and well documented and nothing here counters that.

And yes there are a lot of black voters in California who have misgivings about her record

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Well, it's a fact that Sanders is having issues paying the $15 minimum wage he promised, but I don't see people constantly bashing the fact that if he can't even pay his own staff based on his own policies, why should we trust him to do the same with the nation at large?

Point being, most of us don't spend our time bashing Sanders because we understand the real problem isn't Biden or Harris, it's the Republican party.

This is why I have never taken you seriously on this matter.

This subject had nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. Sanders wasn’t involved in this argument. Sanders wasn’t even on the stage last night. Sanders hasn’t even mounted a serious attack or criticism of Harris.

In response to a valid well documented criticism of Harris that a totally separate candidate launched, your big response was to run to crying about Bernie for literally no reason.

You continue to prove that you are toxic when it comes to him and can’t help yourself.

Also I love that you think Sanders limiting working hours to try to maintain a 15 dollar minimum wage for his workers (which is the only one negotiated with a union) is comparable to Harris trying to hide evidence that would have taken a man off death row. Says a lot

[aja_christopher]

So I see a lot of words I made about a post where 90% of the content of said post was that this particular criticism of Harris is accurate and well documented and nothing here counters that.

And yes there are a lot of black voters in California who have misgivings about her record

And it's accurate that Sanders had issues paying for his minimum wage, rarely addresses civil rights issues in a legislative manner, has had to deal with credible allegations of sexism within his staffing, and has said that he will raise taxes in a nation where that has never been a popular election stance.

But you don't see people constantly bashing him for these issues, the same way you and 30 do other Democratic candidates.

I love that you think Sanders limiting working hours to try to maintain a 15 dollar minimum wage for his workers (which is the only one negotiated with a union) is comparable to Harris trying to hide evidence that would have taken a man off death row. Says a lot

I don't "think" anything about the issue -- I'm just pointing out "facts" about your candidate.

None of them are perfect, and constantly bashing other Democrats brings nothing positive to the conversation, much less the effort to remove Trump from office.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

And it's accurate that Sanders had issues paying for his minimum wage, rarely addresses civil rights issues in a legislative manner, has had to with credible allegations of sexism within his staffing, and has said that he will raise taxes in a nation where that has never been a popular election stance.

But you don't see people constantly bashing him for these issues, the same way you and 30 do other Democratic candidates.



I don't "think" anything about the issue -- I'm just pointing out "facts" about your candidate.

This isn’t about Sanders. It has nothing to do with Sanders. We get that you are obsessed with Sanders and your default is to pivot everything back to attacking him. You constantly prove over and over again what we have been saying. You are toxic when it comes to him and can’t help yourself

Also wtf are you talking about he constantly gets bashed for those things.

1. The minimum wage thing, which I doubt you even are well informed about, was something that came up in the last few weeks. It’s still talked about. Also it’s about limiting hours so they won’t work overtime. But yeah it’s the same as keeping someone on death row and trying to hide evidence. So similar

2. The sexual harassment instance was a huge story. It had nothing to do with Bernie directly and had to do with members of a massive campaign. He also has the strictest safe guards of any campaign this time around. Something you never bring up

3. Civil Rights. Bernie is still the only candidate who was in the civil rights movement. Meanwhile you’re using this to defend Biden who multiple people of color last night brought up how horrendous his legislative record was and how deeply it harmed African Americans and Harris who is responsible for countless black men being in jail for petty drug crimes in her district. Really? That’s the game you want to play? Please try to see the forest for the trees.

Not that I should even have to point all this out because again this conversation has nothing to do with Bernie.

You’re just proving what I’ve said every time this comes up. Get over it

[aja_christopher]

This isn’t about Sanders. It has nothing to do with Sanders. We get that you are obsessed with Sanders and your default is to pivot everything back to attacking him. You constantly prove over and over again what we have been saying. You are toxic when it comes to him and can’t help yourself

I couldn't care much less about Sanders -- the only time I really bring him up is when you bash other Democratic candidates, just to show you how it would be if others did the same as you and attacked Sanders as much as you do other candidates.

The fact that you are taking this so personally only further proves my point about Sanders's supporters being the issue -- not Sanders himself. He's just another candidate -- no more, no less -- and criticizing him shouldn't invoke that much venom in you.

Pointing out "facts" -- just like you are with Harris, Biden, and others -- shouldn't even bother you: if you can dish it out, then you should be able to take it. Better yet, stop attacking other candidates and simply explain why yours is better on similar issues, like criminal justice, and you might build some support for him.

Attacking other more moderate candidates (like Hillary) didn't work for you last time -- Sanders lost to her by millions of votes -- so why would you try it again?

That said, I don't even want to criticize Sanders -- I just would prefer you stop constantly attacking other Democrats to support your choice.

[aja_christopher]

"American farmer: Trump 'took away all of our markets'"

"The White House recently announced that it would be providing an additional $16 billion in aid to American farmers affected by the trade war between the U.S. and China.

But the problem for American farmers has becomes bigger than something a bailout can fix.

“This trade thing is what’s brought on by the president and it’s really frustrating because he took away all of our markets,” Bob Kuylen, a farmer from North Dakota who grows spring wheat and sunflowers, told Yahoo Finance. “We live in an area where we’re kind of in the middle of nowhere. It costs us a lot of money — over $1 a bushel to get our grain to markets.”

Since trade tensions began in 2018, farmers have faced major financial challenges, since China was once a major U.S. agriculture buyer.

And losing customers has become a major issue. Soybean farmers have been dealing with this, as China has turned to other countries like Brazil for soybeans. Kuylen said this is also happening for wheat farmers, as China has begun importing wheat from Russian regions.

“All these countries went to different countries to get their grain,” Kuylen said. “How are we going to get the relations back with them to buy our grain again and be our customers...?”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trade...154935903.html

[aja_christopher]

Not an endorsement -- just more info on Castro's views on immigration policy and the "open borders" debate.

[Gray Lensman]

After the debates, this is my rankings for the candidates.

Top tier - the eventual nominee will almost certainly be one of the following 4: Biden, Warren, Harris, Sanders.

Second Tier - unlikely to win, but still have a long shot to pull it off. Should be considered for a spot as a running mate or something else in the administration of the winner (presuming they win, of course): Butigeg, Castro, Booker.

Third Tier - why are you wasting money? You have no chance and are just embarrassing yourselves. The only thing you can do is provide ammo for the Republicans: Everyone else.

[BeastieRunner]

I really hope whomever gets second, takes the VP slot.

We need an All-Star lineup.

[wjowski]

I think all you guys talking about how Biden's 'time has passed' need to follow some polls. He's the still the front-runner, and by a significant margin.

[Dalak]

I think all you guys talking about how Biden's 'time has passed' need to follow some polls. He's the still the front-runner, and by a significant margin.

And it's still 2019, with the vote more than a year away while he's being hammered in debate after debate. Biden truly needs to go away, I'm fairly sure he's doing more to depress the people we need to come out and vote than anyone else on those stages.

[Kirby101]

I think all you guys talking about how Biden's 'time has passed' need to follow some polls. He's the still the front-runner, and by a significant margin.

The two are not mutually exclusive.