Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[David Walton]

That flys in the face of what actually happened when she demonstrated moving a stone.

First she showed the timeline.
Then she showed the stones circling it to represent how they maintain the flow of time.
Then she showed that by removing a stone a timeline branches.
Then when she put it back again the branch dusted.

This perfectly does away with any timeline anomalies. Banner was just wrong. Time can be altered, but the stones maintain the timeline, making sure the future is not significantly altered. Thanos was threatening to use the stones to totally rewrite the timeline, so that thematically fits too. The stones make new realities. If they are kept together in the same timeline they will make sure destiny is maintained. No branching without stones being time shifted.

My understanding is that the stones don't protect the timeline from branching off. It's just that the stones represent powerful forces in the universe and if they're lifted from one reality and left in another, it will negatively impact the timelines with a missing stone.

So the Ancient One is making two separate points: Banner can't damage 'his' timeline, because it's already happened, and any change in the past will simply be a divergence. Yet he can damage the timeline he's changed (in this case, if he doesn't return the Time Stone leaving the universe unguarded against threats like Dormammu).

[JKtheMac]

Nebula gave Thanos pym particles I thought.

No, I mean how can Thanos get the stones in the main timeline if he came into the future and was snapped before he could do it "loop." Weird terminator stuff gong on there

What happens is that time branches as soon as Nebula jumps into the future. She takes a stone with her so this causes the branch. Then that branch's Thanos jumps across to the main branch in his future at the big battle. The Thanos in the battle is Thanos2. He eventually gets dusted, but when cap goes back and replaces the Morag stone, time will no longer branch, and the main timeline Thanos will just stay in that timeline and get decapitated in the end. He may have a bit of extra knowledge depending on how well Cap actually fixes things, but there is no loop, no branch and no branch jump. What happened happened, the battle is an artefact of the temporary branching.

[Derek Metaltron]

Going by what I saw then I assume that Tony using the Gauntlet effectively reset or erased the alternative GOTG timeline Thanos came from and the present Thanos remains dead after being killed by Thor. The other points in time either were reset (New York) or not seriously affected to change (Asgard and 1970 Shield).

I think Freya could guess she would die and went to her death anyway.

[JKtheMac]

My understanding is that the stones don't 'protect' the timeline from branching off. It's just that the stones represent powerful forces in the universe and if they're lifted from one reality and left in another, it will negatively impact the timelines with a missing stone.

So the Ancient One is making two separate points: Banner can't damage 'his' timeline, because it's already happened, and any change in the past will simply be a divergence. Yet he can damage the timeline he's changed (in this case, if he doesn't return the Time Stone leaving the universe unguarded against threats like Dormammu).

You really need to go back and watch the scene again. She is directly contradicting Banner to his face, and explaining how it works. Also why favour a theory that doesn't make sense because everything will branch all over the place, instead of just going with the theory that ties everything up neatly? Just because sometimes the comics use branching? That isn't even always true.

[Derek Metaltron]

Other stuff I loved...

Thor hopefully being in GOTG 3. I also liked the tragedy of the fact that Gamora is back but has no memories or romantic feelings to Quill, something else GOTG 3 can explore.

This film convincing me that A-Force would be awesome... though I am uncertain if I want Carol leading it, though with Black Widow gone she becomes the logical choice.

I was surprised that they went with Sam instead of Bucky as the new Captain America but since Barnes was down with it I don’t mind. Excited to see him in the costume!

Giving Tony a daughter. Please let her become a future Iron Woman instead of randomly sticking Riri in, makes way more sense.

[MindofShadow]

What happens is that time branches as soon as Nebula jumps into the future. She takes a stone with her so this causes the branch. Then that branch's Thanos jumps across to the main branch in his future at the big battle. The Thanos in the battle is Thanos2. He eventually gets dusted, but when cap goes back and replaces the Morag stone, time will no longer branch, and the main timeline Thanos will just stay in that timeline and get decapitated in the end. He may have a bit of extra knowledge depending on how well Cap actually fixes things, but there is no loop, no branch and no branch jump. What happened happened, the battle is an artefact of the temporary branching.

What am I missing here...




So where does the "snap" take place? Does Thanos2/Big Battle/Snap jump to 2023 on the timeline once he time traveled back over?

[Star_Jammer]

Yea I saw it but I thought she could have been referencing quicksilver too .

Sadly, Quicsikver hasn’t been mentioned since AoU. It’s more likely the scene was about Vision.

[Cyke]

Also, it seems no avenger cares about Vision lol. I thought he would come back without the mind stone of course. He would have been useful in the final fight. But yea, it’s strange he isn’t mentioned at all in the movie. Wanda just tells Thanos he took everything from her but that’s about it. Weird considering they Wanda and Vision have their own shoe on Disney plus seemingly set in the 1950’s for some reason....

When Wanda and Clint bond by the lake, Clint says he hopes that "she" knows they won. Wanda replies that "they both" know.

Now, obviously Clint was referring to Natasha. But my friend and I had different responses for Wanda's reference. Did she mean Tony (since it was his funeral, and the most immediate death), Vision (the love of her life), or Quicksilver (her brother and the man Clint honored by naming his son in Pietro's honor)?

Honestly, anyone could make the case for any three of them, and there'll be no argument from me.

[Star_Jammer]

When Wanda and Clint bond by the lake, Clint says he hopes that "she" knows they won. Wanda replies that "they both" know.

Now, obviously Clint was referring to Natasha. But my friend and I had different responses for Wanda's reference. Did she mean Tony (since it was his funeral, and the most immediate death), Vision (the love of her life), or Quicksilver (her brother and the man Clint honored by naming his son in Pietro's honor)?

Honestly, anyone could make the case for any three of them, and there'll be no argument from me.

Pietro wouldn’t have known about Thanos. And I don’t think the movie makes it confusing as to whether or not Tony knows they won.

[KabutoRyder]

Sadly, Quicsikver hasn’t been mentioned since AoU. It’s more likely the scene was about Vision.

Indeed. Vision.

Everyone forgot about Quicksilver. Even Wanda. lol

[Cyke]

Pietro wouldn’t have known about Thanos. And I don’t think the movie makes it confusing as to whether or not Tony knows they won.

With Pietro, we meant in that metaphorical sense when it comes to grief, not literally, like their spirits smiling down upon them because our passed ones watch over us. It's not uncommon in fiction (or the MCU, for that matter -- they already implied that with Frigga's inevitable death in this movie).

But Wanda also said her line in the definitive, not hypothetically like Clint. So assuming she meant Tony for the sake of argument, she would mean Natasha knowing as much as Tony in the definite -- by Wanda removing the hypothetical nature of the response, that means there's sureness. If she said, "I hope they both know" or some other qualifier like that, then yeah, it could be narrowed down to eliminate Tony.

[Derek Metaltron]

Indeed. Vision.

Everyone forgot about Quicksilver. Even Wanda. lol

To be fair Wanda had about three years to get over Pietro’s death. Whereas to her Vision’s death had just happened.

[Star_Jammer]

With Pietro, we meant in that metaphorical sense when it comes to grief, not literally, like their spirits smiling down upon them because our passed ones watch over us. It's not uncommon in fiction (or the MCU, for that matter -- they already implied that with Frigga's inevitable death in this movie).

But Wanda also said her line in the definitive, not hypothetically like Clint. So assuming she meant Tony for the sake of argument, she would mean Natasha knowing as much as Tony in the definite -- by Wanda removing the hypothetical nature of the response, that means there's sureness. If she said, "I hope they both know" or some other qualifier like that, then yeah, it could be narrowed down to eliminate Tony.

I just don’t see Wanda as being overly sentimental about Tony.

In AoU, she hated him, till she realized she was going about things the wrong way. This isn’t ever fully reconciled, as even in Civil War Tony was trying to keep Wanda under house arrest. Then she winds up fully imprisoned due, in part, to Tony’s stance on the Sokovia accords.

But ::shrug::

[David Walton]

You really need to go back and watch the scene again.

I hope to watch it again soon!

Also why favour a theory that doesn't make sense because everything will branch all over the place, instead of just going with the theory that ties everything up neatly? Just because sometimes the comics use branching? That isn't even always true.

I think this comes down to personal preference. I love alternate timelines. As for why the MCU would go with it, as opposed to neatly tying everything up? Because of storytelling potential. Like how you get a Gamora who both is and isn't like the one we knew. She has no romantic history with Star Lord and no relationship with the Guardians, but bonded with Nebula faster than she did in the original timeline. Lots of different places they can go with that. And you can get things like an alternate Tony Stark showing up somewhere down the line, alive and well because IW and EG never happened in his timeline.

[Derek Metaltron]

Two other questions I have been wondering about...

1. What was going on in Wakanda for five years? Did they have a new ruler or was Okeye calling the shots?

2. Are the Sokovia Accords effectively cancelled now? We see Ross at the end which suggests he’s gotten over issues with Cap and his pals.