Official : Bendis gets both books

[manwhohaseverything]

Reading some of this thread, I wouldn't expect the most nuanced discussion when it comes to sexuality on a comic book forum but still... yikes.

I'm not even a fan of the Jon/Damian pairing (and if your personally not as well that's fine) but this notion that it's somehow "sick" or "disgusting" is boderline homophobic.

While I definately thinks its inappropriate of the fans who sexualise them (or any minors) there are tons of examples within media that depict adolescents as young as them having crushes on their friends and the like with shippers abound, if that suddenly becomes morally wrong to you because it now involves two boys well that's telling.

Be honest with yourselves if Jon was Joanna you'd be perfectly fine with their being some sort of romantic tension between her and Damian, in fact you'd expect it.

Ultimately I guess it doesn't matter now as any notion of any kind of romance between the two certainly would be inappropriate due to the age gap.

I actually think Jon discovering he was gay when he was still a kid would've meant more as it's not something often depicted in media and could help destigmatize a bias that going by this thread clearly still exists.

We gay people are no different from you straights as kids, we get crushes and start feeling things to, only in our case it can be incredibly lonely, sad, confusing and frightening time as we've little to no sources in media tellling us that what were feeling isn't wrong and I think seeing a young Jon going through the same thing could've helped a few kids.

Call me homophobic or whatever you want. I wouldn't care if jon was joanna or damian was dianne . I would still consider it sick. You want to know, why? Because i consider jon-damian bond to be that of brotherhood. Jon and damian are brothers. Materials had no sexual undercurrents, whatsoever. But, a budding sibling relation.i have the books to support my claim. If one or both is/are girl/girls then it wouldn't change a sibling dynamic.Sibling relationships doesn't require blood.I don't find incest appealing.

[Robanker]

Now, some of us have said the idea of Jon and Damian puts us off. And I won't speak for why others feel this way but I'm willing to bet that most of them probably feel as I do. These two kids were portrayed and written with a very brotherly bond from very early on. Their entire dynamic has felt like a pair of siblings getting into trouble more than anything else. Adding romance into that makes it feel incestuous. If Jon ends up being gay, cool. He's a young man now and he can find a nice guy who will treat him right and I'll happily read the stories. But Damian is essentially his brother. That's just gross.

Basically my thoughts as well. They're too close at this point that I just see them as family. That's where my distaste comes from, not that they're both boys. Who they fall in love with as they get older doesn't bother me, but again they feel like brothers and now one is a late teen and the other 13, so it's all kinds of hard pass for me.

[walk]

Thanks for telling me what I think.

No, I actually wouldn't expect sexual tension between "Joanna" and Damian. We're talking about a couple pre-teens; I wouldn't expect anything romantic or sexual at all. They were kids for f*cks sake. And regardless of the genders/orientations involved I'd find any push for a romantic entanglement of any kind to be in exceedingly poor taste. I didn't want anything happening between Damian and Nobody (who was a girl, for anyone who doesn't remember her) either.

Now, some of us have said the idea of Jon and Damian puts us off. And I won't speak for why others feel this way but I'm willing to bet that most of them probably feel as I do. These two kids were portrayed and written with a very brotherly bond from very early on. Their entire dynamic has felt like a pair of siblings getting into trouble more than anything else. Adding romance into that makes it feel incestuous. If Jon ends up being gay, cool. He's a young man now and he can find a nice guy who will treat him right and I'll happily read the stories. But Damian is essentially his brother. That's just gross.

.

So even though I specifically specify the diffrence between inappropriately sexualising minors (and why I thinks its wrong) and queer kid characters merely being allowed to be depicted having innocent mutual crushes like their hetro counterparts (a common trope present throughout media for all ages) you purposely misinterpreted my comment in order to make it seem as if I'm arguing for the former... Wow.

I was going to put more effort into my reply but somehow you've now brought incest into the mix.


I don't need to tell you think, you've made that abundantly clear yourself.

[walk]

And here I thought I see only one incest comment, how naive.

I shouldn't be too suprised these are these were the same tactics used to argue against gay marriage and how somehow it's leglization would lead to an epidemic of incest weddings one day.

Are you all you going to bring up beastility next cause this is all really transparent.

[manwhohaseverything]

So even though I specifically specify the diffrence between inappropriately sexualising minors (and why I thinks its wrong) and queer kid characters merely being allowed to be depicted having innocent mutual crushes like their hetro counterparts (a common trope present throughout media for all ages) you purposely misinterpreted my comment in order to make it seem as if I'm arguing for the former... Wow.

I was going to put more effort into my reply but somehow you've now brought incest into the mix.


I don't need to tell you think, you've made that abundantly clear yourself.

it is incestuous. They are brothers and practically cousins if we take bruce and clark.Attractions are depicted in certain ways. Here,there wasn't anything of the sorts. If more than one people feel this way then it isn't a coincidence. You were the one accusing people of homophobia. Not everything is sinister. I wouldn't want jon to be in a relationship with jimmy, either. That is not homophobia. That's just plain decency.

[Superlad93]

Was there ever any kind of foreshadowing or hints about this that I might've missed somewhere? I'll happily adjust my opinion if there's stuff in the books I didn't catch.

*sigh* Ascended, why ya gotta ask questions lol

Well, since you asked, yeah. Maybe, possibly, I dunno, there could be *some* scenes and instances here or there that could be read as clues, and would come into better focus *IF* the hypothetical reveal comes about.

Over in issue 1 of Superman Jon is complaining about going to school, and he says that he could learn better with hand on experience. Clark dismisses this and tells him he's going to school, but not before asking him if this is all really just about a girl. Jon yells out "why does it always have to be about that." Over in issue 4 of Superman Clark is explaining how Batman does things that frustrate him,but he knows that he'll always do the best thing in the end if he gives him time. Jon, with a smile says, "so, you like Batman the same way you like mom". Then over in Action Comics 1012 Clark tells Lois that he and Jon were talking about what Clark thought of Lois the first time they saw one another. Then over in Superman issue 16 Damian says that he's almost Batman (to illustrate how close Jon is to being Superman. And Jon agrees saying almost), and Jon interjects saying "you're so much more than that".


Literally *none* of that is conclusive, and I'm not presenting it as such.

[walk]

I think the movie is the only time they've ever established that the Trident represents the "one true king."

I don't think it would be sick or wrong, but I don't think it should be a factor in the relationship between the Super Sons because I just don't think that's the kind of relationship they have.

See that people you can disagree without essentially comparing homesexuality to incest.

It's not hard.

[Ascended]

*sigh* Ascended, why ya gotta ask questions lol

Because I know you remember specific panels better than I do, especially since the last couple years of classes have demanded so much attention from me, and you're foolish enough to take the time to refresh my memory, of course!

Well, since you asked, yeah. Maybe, possibly, I dunno, there could be *some* scenes and instances here or there that could be read as clues, and would come into better focus *IF* the hypothetical reveal comes about.

Literally *none* of that is conclusive, and I'm not presenting it as such.

I dunno man. If Jon does turn out to be gay then that stuff will definitely look like teasers and hints (especially the "you like Batman like you like mom" line) and maybe it has been from the start of Bendis' run, but as it currently stands I feel like that is fairly thin ground to base Jon being gay on. And if there's any feelings for Damian beyond brotherly love it'll be a pretty big shift and retcon from Tomasi.

[Ascended]

it is incestuous. They are brothers and practically cousins if we take bruce and clark.Attractions are depicted in certain ways. Here,there wasn't anything of the sorts. If more than one people feel this way then it isn't a coincidence. You were the one accusing people of homophobia. Not everything is sinister. I wouldn't want jon to be in a relationship with jimmy, either. That is not homophobia. That's just plain decency.

Not worth the effort my friend. Don't feed the trolls.

[Superlad93]

I dunno man. If Jon does turn out to be gay then that stuff will definitely look like teasers and hints (especially the "you like Batman like you like mom" line) and maybe it has been from the start of Bendis' run, but as it currently stands I feel like that is fairly thin ground to base Jon being gay on. And if there's any feelings for Damian beyond brotherly love it'll be a pretty big shift and retcon from Tomasi.

Like I said, none of this is conclusive. So it's just up in the air.

[Ascended]

Like I said, none of this is conclusive. So it's just up in the air.

Nothing ever is until it's confirmed.

My gods, can you imagine how Fox News would handle it if the son of Superman, and supposedly the new guy in the cape as of 5G, was gay? Man, that alone would be worth the price of admission!

[manwhohaseverything]

Not worth the effort my friend. Don't feed the trolls.

You are right. It's the first time someone accused me of being a homophobe. It did sting a little.

[Robanker]

You are right. It's the first time someone accused me of being a homophobe. It did sting a little.

The internet is the native domain of hyperbole. Best not take it seriously. They equated one relationship with all of us conflating homosexuality and incest or some degree of disdain and most on here are perfectly fine with Jon being gay and reading his adventures and relationships going forward. Or bisexual. Or straight. Or pan. I can't speak for others, but I love Jon and I'm fine with either of those directions.

Moving the discussion away from Jon's love life, has Bendis said anything about Metropolis going forward? His focus on it at the onset of Action was great but since Leviathan it has fallen by the wayside.

[walk]

I think what's fascinating about this is that even though I explicitly stated its fine not to be into the idea of Damian/Jon as a couple (I'm not even myself personally) but merely pointed out that being against the idea of it due to some sort of vague moral principle or presenting those who do as wrong and disgusting was a harmful double standard as it carries a ton of hurtful implications about queer kids, instead of actually engaging in that discussion (or any other points I made) you chose to get defensive and started to argue that suddenly it was a matter of not being in favour of incest of your own volition.

Well spoiler alert Jon and Damian aren't related so you'll have to put your goal posts on another hill to die on I'm afraid.

Here a quick tip for any future discussions you may have, if want people to actually believe you don't have a biased or bigoted tendencies when problems with your language are pointed out to you and that you are open to having an honest discussion in good faith, your response shouldnt be to start equating the thing to something worst as means of dodging responsibility for your own choice of words.

Also who's Jimmy?

[Vordan]

Because I know you remember specific panels better than I do, especially since the last couple years of classes have demanded so much attention from me, and you're foolish enough to take the time to refresh my memory, of course!



I dunno man. If Jon does turn out to be gay then that stuff will definitely look like teasers and hints (especially the "you like Batman like you like mom" line) and maybe it has been from the start of Bendis' run, but as it currently stands I feel like that is fairly thin ground to base Jon being gay on. And if there's any feelings for Damian beyond brotherly love it'll be a pretty big shift and retcon from Tomasi.

Tomasi’s Jon is clearly straight. His heat vision activates for the first time around Kathy, the same way Clark’s heat vision activated for the first time in SO when Lana kissed him (don’t forget Johns helped plot all the first Rebirth story arcs for all the books). I’m kind of curious where this whole “Bendis is going to make Jon gay” theory is coming from. I haven’t seen any evidence it’s in the cards, Jon is just older now, he hasn’t expressed any interest in dudes. I’m honestly half expecting him and Saturn Girl to get together since she’s a blonde telepath like Kathy. I wouldn’t mind Jon being gay but I’d be hesitant about Bendis doing that reveal, his Iceman reveal was... not good.