Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Yes, the reality stone can alter the past... but T'Challa apparently traveled to the past. That would imply the time gem. Again, if the idea was the time gem wasn't used then he probably shouldn't have had T'Challa travel through time. Which isn't to say you can't make arguements that it was the reality gem... by point of contention being it wasn't clear at all. Unclear to the point where the writer and editor weren't sure. That's about as unclear as you can get.

Except nothing supports that he went to the past Because what we see Didn't happen in the past. An incursion happened. So again. Based on what we saw, the logical conclusion is that he altered reality which could allow him to show up back at the start of tro and have those event's play out like we saw in thsr final issue

[Ezyo1000]

Bro, this is Dr. Phil situation.

Armchair analysis? My only conclusion is many were upset because they felt Slott took away Franklin's identity, the thing they felt made him special. They may have felt he did it in such a casual manner that didn't go into a deeper explanation or that didn't explore the ramifications of how they would feel.

It could have had a devastating effect on some people.

Wow call then mister fantastic because that's an incredible reach. Now these folks know how BP fans feel whenever x office has Storm go to Wakanda for more frakkery

[Paul Muad'Dib]

BP represent... vibin'.... hip-hop culture wreckin' havoc on Thanos/ Galactus levels...

Travis Scott & Forknife Present: Astronomical (Game Event Video) April 2020



Fortnite

WWO: boasting. roasting & toasting! A "TOAST" to the boundary pushers. "They tried to break us... and now we're 'The Breakers'... Believe it...

[Paul Muad'Dib]

Scott & Forknife meet... Emperor Shakka (the 9th BP) the 'King-Kong' of Wu-kanda.



The Incredible Black Panther WWO (^^^ ^^^)

[XPac]

Except nothing supports that he went to the past Because what we see Didn't happen in the past. An incursion happened. So again. Based on what we saw, the logical conclusion is that he altered reality which could allow him to show up back at the start of tro and have those event's play out like we saw in thsr final issue

He was in the past... it's just that he changed the past. That's why I said more than 1 gem was frankly needed in order for that to make sense. It's why even the editor and writer were frankly confused by which gem was used... it doesn't entirely make sense that only 1 was. Clearly he did travel in the past, but he also changed it. Logically it would have required both the time and reality gem, but only 1 gem was shown being used.

The other problem being the incursions did still happen, so that first incursion should have still been shown. Frankly that entire last scene should have been omitted in order for everything to make sense. Not that it wasn't a very nice scene.... but since everything that happened still ended up happening that last scene just confuses everything by making changed whch weren't actually necessary to the story. It sort of made a mess of things.

[BlkGldBlu]

You mean that disneyfied film that's one of the highest grossing films of all time?no BP movie should be rated R...just recast or shock the world and have MCU Nakia BECOME BP��

Ugh!!? I want to see a see Wakanda and die on screen.
And if it's Disneyfied it's just infinity war pt 1 just a sea of cgi and no real umph.

[Ezyo1000]

He was in the past... it's just that he changed the past. That's why I said more than 1 gem was frankly needed in order for that to make sense. It's why even the editor and writer were frankly confused by which gem was used... it doesn't entirely make sense that only 1 was. Clearly he did travel in the past, but he also changed it. Logically it would have required both the time and reality gem, but only 1 gem was shown being used.

The other problem being the incursions did still happen, so that first incursion should have still been shown. Frankly that entire last scene should have been omitted in order for everything to make sense. Not that it wasn't a very nice scene.... but since everything that happened still ended up happening that last scene just confuses everything by making changed whch weren't actually necessary to the story. It sort of made a mess of things.

Yeah so we have a case of what the writer SHOWS vs what the writer says after the fact. And frankly I take what was shown over what was said. If the writer of the story doesn't know what gem was used or how to properly wrap up the story that they don't even know what happened, that's bad writing. So filling in the blanks, he used the reality gem. It's the cleanest and more logical gem to use, it answers why Miles is around and how the new squadron supreme was able to destroy atlantis and kill Namor as well as how those alt universe characters even got to the 616.

Writers cannot just retrofit whatever explanation they want after the fact. Especially if what they are trying to fit in directly goes against what they themselves wrote into the script and what we are shown on panel. Sorry, it's done.

[Cville]

Ugh!!? I want to see a see Wakanda and die on screen.
And if it's Disneyfied it's just infinity war pt 1 just a sea of cgi and no real umph.

That should probably be an animated movie. That way they can go as hard as Darkseid War.

[Dboi654]

Disney's Investor's day is today.

Hopefully, we get some good news on the development of BP2 to a certain degree.

[XPac]

Yeah so we have a case of what the writer SHOWS vs what the writer says after the fact. And frankly I take what was shown over what was said. If the writer of the story doesn't know what gem was used or how to properly wrap up the story that they don't even know what happened, that's bad writing. So filling in the blanks, he used the reality gem. It's the cleanest and more logical gem to use, it answers why Miles is around and how the new squadron supreme was able to destroy atlantis and kill Namor as well as how those alt universe characters even got to the 616.

Writers cannot just retrofit whatever explanation they want after the fact. Especially if what they are trying to fit in directly goes against what they themselves wrote into the script and what we are shown on panel. Sorry, it's done.

Miles specifically was around because of the Molecule Man. That was a reward for him being nice with the burger.

But I don't dispute that one can assume it's the reality gem ... merely disagreeing that it's clear. If the writer and editor don't know, it says a lot.

Again, in hindsight that last scene frankly should be ignored since it doesn't effect the story and outright conflicts with what we're told about the incursions happening anyways. But marvel instead opted to let Hichman do what he wanted to do, then flat out ignore it afterwards. Which I suppose is fair given Hickmsn himself didn't seem to k ow what he was doing by that point.

[XPac]

That should probably be an animated movie. That way they can go as hard as Darkseid War.

Given we're getting skulls introduced in the mcu I think a version of See Wakanda and die is possible. Wouldn't be shocked if the next Avengers film was Secret Invasion. The last Spiderman film is sort of leading in that direction.

[4sake Baned]

https://www.ign.com/articles/black-p...an-books?amp=1

[Besouro]

And truthfully, the male representation thing, while important, isn't even the biggest aspect. There needs to be a CLEAR distinction between the roles that T'Challa's cast plays because that's how a cast is supposed to work. They don't do everything individually because the idea is for them to be lead by the main character. With T'Challa that's ESPECIALLY the case, because he's a strategic and tactical mastermind, his cast should reflect all the tools available to him so he can direct them as needed to achieve his goal. There's no justifiable reason outside of laziness or simple stupidity that you'd have one side character wearing multiple hats of significance.

Okoye should be a quippy bodyguard and leader of T'Challa's security detail at home and abroad. That's it lol. Let other characters do other things and as Wedjat said, diversify and explore other parts of the Wakandan military structure. Frankly the Dora do occupy too much space in this regard and that's where I think the gender politics come into play because I refuse to believe they'd be getting this much push if they were men. Nothing wrong with giving them shine, but c'mon a Dora should not be leading Wakandan espionage. I want to see more of the HZ, the Panther Cult Priesthood, Wakandan superhumans, etc. The Dora are cool but after 2 minis and being the de facto leads of a 12-issue arc there should be exploration of other things. And if we get some more competent black male characters out of it, all the better.

I AGREE on distinction of support characters.

DISAGREE on Okoye being quippy.....that's better served with Shuri to distinguish her from her brother Tchalla.

I AGREE that we need to see more of the Panther cult priesthood, more divisions of the Wakandan Mysticism and defense.

I DISAGREE that the Dora's shouldn't be lead spies...... Ladies make the best and easiest spies of any nation so it makes great and perfect sense that the Dora's are the spies. However, it should be some males involved even if they are the minority.

I PROPOSE the return of P.R I D.E as Shuri's personal team and support cast.

I AGREE on Wakandan mutants and have spoken about them in here at length before. However the Mutants do not have to be X-Men (x-gene) but rather V-gene mutants from 10,000 years of close proximity to the Vibranium mound which transformed the dna of many Wakandans across generations until they have developed super-powers. There have existed in BP before and they were called "mutates" not mutants.....Vibraxas is evidence of a Wakandan with superpowers from Vibranium radiation.

Heck, since X-writers n editors created Gentle to through shade at BP....let's turn that into a positive for BP.

(1) Gentle is actually a Wakandan spy on main team X-Men ....(I would the native american xman with the Vibranium knife as the 2nd spy involved in X-Men clandestine network- Xforce)

(2) Existence of Gentle implies that there are x-gene Wakandans..... fine....but it's also a brilliant opportunity to have x-gene/V-gene Wakandan characters under Tchalla.

By the way, whatever happened to Savage land being an annex or protectorate under Wakanda? ...the X-Men tend to use it all willy nilly without Wakandan authorization.

****I.E.W****

The INTERGALACTIC EMPIRE OF WAKANDA was created on these very board years BEFORE TNC wrote BP. As much as he has totally butchered that concept...I still believe we can keep it around but just have the origins of the IEW changed retrospectively using a new story set in the present IEW affected by elements of it's past shown in flashbacks as reveals.

IEW requires SERIOUS political intrigue, espionage and high end sci-fi action type plots involving the various alien civilisations, space teams and cosmic based characters....but IEW will only take off if and only when other books/characters/writers/editorial actually give it valid recognition across the MU slate of titles otherwise it would be utterly superfluous as it is now under TNCs pen.

Whatever happened that Deviant or was it Eternal baby from Priest's run???

Whatever happened to the pre-historic dinosaur portion of the Wakandan kingdom? ....MY SUGGESTION ....for this is that it shared spartial rift with Savage land which is how Wakandans found and annexed Savage land.

Finally, Tchalla is the WEALTHIEST AND RICHEST SUPERHERO IN COMICDOM.... so writers and Marvel editorial SHOULD AND MUST give him the respect, showing and distinction of a character of such stature. All the white wealthy characters get to have grandiose showings if their feats of wealth but never BP/Tchalla.

Any thoughts?

[Cville]

I AGREE on distinction of support characters.

DISAGREE on Okoye being quippy.....that's better served with Shuri to distinguish her from her brother Tchalla.

I AGREE that we need to see more of the Panther cult priesthood, more divisions of the Wakandan Mysticism and defense.

I DISAGREE that the Dora's shouldn't be lead spies...... Ladies make the best and easiest spies of any nation so it makes great and perfect sense that the Dora's are the spies. However, it should be some males involved even if they are the minority.

I PROPOSE the return of P.R I D.E as Shuri's personal team and support cast.

I AGREE on Wakandan mutants and have spoken about them in here at length before. However the Mutants do not have to be X-Men (x-gene) but rather V-gene mutants from 10,000 years of close proximity to the Vibranium mound which transformed the dna of many Wakandans across generations until they have developed super-powers. There have existed in BP before and they were called "mutates" not mutants.....Vibraxas is evidence of a Wakandan with superpowers from Vibranium radiation.

Heck, since X-writers n editors created Gentle to through shade at BP....let's turn that into a positive for BP.

(1) Gentle is actually a Wakandan spy on main team X-Men ....(I would the native american xman with the Vibranium knife as the 2nd spy involved in X-Men clandestine network- Xforce)

(2) Existence of Gentle implies that there are x-gene Wakandans..... fine....but it's also a brilliant opportunity to have x-gene/V-gene Wakandan characters under Tchalla.

By the way, whatever happened to Savage land being an annex or protectorate under Wakanda? ...the X-Men tend to use it all willy nilly without Wakandan authorization.

****I.E.W****

The INTERGALACTIC EMPIRE OF WAKANDA was created on these very board years BEFORE TNC wrote BP. As much as he has totally butchered that concept...I still believe we can keep it around but just have the origins of the IEW changed retrospectively using a new story set in the present IEW affected by elements of it's past shown in flashbacks as reveals.

IEW requires SERIOUS political intrigue, espionage and high end sci-fi action type plots involving the various alien civilisations, space teams and cosmic based characters....but IEW will only take off if and only when other books/characters/writers/editorial actually give it valid recognition across the MU slate of titles otherwise it would be utterly superfluous as it is now under TNCs pen.

Whatever happened that Deviant or was it Eternal baby from Priest's run???

Whatever happened to the pre-historic dinosaur portion of the Wakandan kingdom? ....MY SUGGESTION ....for this is that it shared spartial rift with Savage land which is how Wakandans found and annexed Savage land.

Finally, Tchalla is the WEALTHIEST AND RICHEST SUPERHERO IN COMICDOM.... so writers and Marvel editorial SHOULD AND MUST give him the respect, showing and distinction of a character of such stature. All the white wealthy characters get to have grandiose showings if their feats of wealth but never BP/Tchalla.

Any thoughts?

To fix the Empire story, just have Tchalla send a message to himself in the past not to launch the ship or have the crew take another route to avoid the annomaly. I'd start with just one new planet for a year or two, then pull a Star Wars cheat and build something like the "Star Forge" to build up quicky.

I'd retcon Gentle to being from N'ganda. He was abandoned on a battlefield and and a soldier brought him home. Thats the real reason his "Mother" hates him. But the soldier dies in another battle so she is stuck with him until she re-marries and starts having her own childern. Tchalla seeing that he has an X-gene sends him to the Xavier school in the care of Storm.

The Serpent Valley was in the issue where Killmonger gets resurrected, but we didn't see any dinosaurs.

Edit: Just had a crazy idea. What if we retcon Zenzi to being Tchalla Psychiatrist? She have sessions with him explaining his thoughts on everything from DoomWar to Secret Wars. He powers would be useful in that profession.

[chief12d]

I AGREE on distinction of support characters.

DISAGREE on Okoye being quippy.....that's better served with Shuri to distinguish her from her brother Tchalla.

I AGREE that we need to see more of the Panther cult priesthood, more divisions of the Wakandan Mysticism and defense.

I DISAGREE that the Dora's shouldn't be lead spies...... Ladies make the best and easiest spies of any nation so it makes great and perfect sense that the Dora's are the spies. However, it should be some males involved even if they are the minority.

I PROPOSE the return of P.R I D.E as Shuri's personal team and support cast.

I AGREE on Wakandan mutants and have spoken about them in here at length before. However the Mutants do not have to be X-Men (x-gene) but rather V-gene mutants from 10,000 years of close proximity to the Vibranium mound which transformed the dna of many Wakandans across generations until they have developed super-powers. There have existed in BP before and they were called "mutates" not mutants.....Vibraxas is evidence of a Wakandan with superpowers from Vibranium radiation.

Heck, since X-writers n editors created Gentle to through shade at BP....let's turn that into a positive for BP.

(1) Gentle is actually a Wakandan spy on main team X-Men ....(I would the native american xman with the Vibranium knife as the 2nd spy involved in X-Men clandestine network- Xforce)

(2) Existence of Gentle implies that there are x-gene Wakandans..... fine....but it's also a brilliant opportunity to have x-gene/V-gene Wakandan characters under Tchalla.

By the way, whatever happened to Savage land being an annex or protectorate under Wakanda? ...the X-Men tend to use it all willy nilly without Wakandan authorization.

****I.E.W****

The INTERGALACTIC EMPIRE OF WAKANDA was created on these very board years BEFORE TNC wrote BP. As much as he has totally butchered that concept...I still believe we can keep it around but just have the origins of the IEW changed retrospectively using a new story set in the present IEW affected by elements of it's past shown in flashbacks as reveals.

IEW requires SERIOUS political intrigue, espionage and high end sci-fi action type plots involving the various alien civilisations, space teams and cosmic based characters....but IEW will only take off if and only when other books/characters/writers/editorial actually give it valid recognition across the MU slate of titles otherwise it would be utterly superfluous as it is now under TNCs pen.

Whatever happened that Deviant or was it Eternal baby from Priest's run???

Whatever happened to the pre-historic dinosaur portion of the Wakandan kingdom? ....MY SUGGESTION ....for this is that it shared spartial rift with Savage land which is how Wakandans found and annexed Savage land.

Finally, Tchalla is the WEALTHIEST AND RICHEST SUPERHERO IN COMICDOM.... so writers and Marvel editorial SHOULD AND MUST give him the respect, showing and distinction of a character of such stature. All the white wealthy characters get to have grandiose showings if their feats of wealth but never BP/Tchalla.

Any thoughts?

Maybe quippy was the wrong word to use, because I agree that should be Shuri's thing. But I'd describe Okoye as snappy and noble, a fish out of water who's lack of interest in the outside world lends itself to the occasional funny moment. Basically the MCU version lol.

Dora shouldn't be spies because they're bodyguards. They should have a working understanding of espionage (hacking, disguises, etc.) but that should primarily be handled by a separate organization, the War Dogs making the most sense. And considering how the Dora are all female, while I wouldn't have a problem with some female War Dogs, I want a man leading this organization, preferably Kasper Cole as the new White Wolf. He's a friend and former protégé of T'Challa, experienced in urban settings, and a foreigner who offers a new perspective. T'Challa isn't a xenophobe and I could see him elevating a trusted non-Wakandan to this position.

Definitely agreed on the PRIDE and Shuri. I made a post about what I'd ideally like to see from that and I think you're right it's the easiest way to give her a supporting cast.

I like your idea of integrating vibranium mutates. They're basically like gamma mutates (Hulk, She-Hulk, etc.) but with a gene that activates in the presence of exotic vibranium radiation. Keeping them distinct from mutants is the best thing that can be done as it builds on original lore going back to the early stories of Stan Lee. Still prefer the idea of Gentle not being Wakandan at all, but if it was revealed that he was a spy that's just about the next best thing lol.

The Savage Land debuted in X-Men comics and hasn't ever really been apart of the BP mythos. Though given they're both vibranium-rich regions and T'Challa has a vested in interest in making sure no vibranium falls into the wrong hands, it makes sense that he'd want to set up some sort of alliance with its leadership (Ka-Zar). Serpent Valley is where you'll find those dinosaurs and I think it should be brought back to prominence. But I disagree with the idea of Wakandan protectorates as a general principle, T'Challa shouldn't want to annex land unless it's uninhabited, he should have no colonial desires at all.

I truthfully don't know how to make the IGEW work so your idea would be fine with me. My thought was just to seal most of it away in another dimension and let the remnants become a Mandalorian warrior people, selling their services to other alien empires. A nomadic group housed in massive vibranium world ships, representing the total war and greed that Wakanda Prime rejects. From there T'Challa should restart the Wakandan space program and organically build a space presence instead of skipping directly to some galaxy spanning empire.