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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    We don't know what Savage Avengers really is at this point. What we do no by all appearances with the character's involved it looks like a murder squad due to the majority of members being known mostly as murderers. (Not All) Just by association regardless of how the book plays out the characters will be seen as murderers.

    What we also know is that Blade has relatively low appearances for a character who has not been around for that long. What we also know that like it or not how the characters are being portrayed today is the dye that they will be painted with to larger audiences in the current point in history and possibly moving forward.( See Carol Danvers) Some characters, like Wolverine, can literally get away with murder 1000 times over while relatively unknowns like Blade cannot. Even with Blade's 90's movies most people are still unaware that Blade is a comic book character let alone that he is a Marvel character. If Blade is played correctly today when the time comes he could be the next Wolverine to the boarder non-comic audience. If mishandled he will get shuffled into background again with reason's that would be hard to refute by a company like Disney.

    I just feel if fans of the character are going to push anything they should keep pushing Blade as a main-stay in the main Avenger book.
    We do know what it's about, Duggan gave an interview on the plot. The sorcerors from Conans world are trafficking in black magic with the hand.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Would you like to go into detail of what "Scary Black Man" tropes currently are and how they are/were applied to Blade?

    And then follow that up with how it's not a problem?

    I'll wait.
    I mean they made him a hot head who seemingly had a blanket distrust for white people with no father. I'd say like the source of his anger has been one of, if not the only, well developed part of the character.

  3. #168
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks View Post
    We do know what it's about, Duggan gave an interview on the plot. The sorcerors from Conans world are trafficking in black magic with the hand.
    Nah, my friend. Until the book comes out and there are actual pages of how the characters are interacting we don't really know anything. Duggan gave us the premise to his book that is it.

    Could all the members of the team swear not to kill unless their monsters or something while they hold the Avenger name? Sure. But right now we do not know that yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks View Post
    I mean they made him a hot head who seemingly had a blanket distrust for white people with no father. I'd say like the source of his anger has been one of, if not the only, well developed part of the character.
    Being a hot-head is not a Black or intrinsic Black troupe. Redheads has the same label. If Rose wants to go down that road I would like to hear his thoughts on what he believes "Scary Black Man" troupes are. Or he can choose to leave that line of discussion alone. Either way the work around is pretty.
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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Nah, my friend. Until the book comes out and there are actual pages of how the characters are interacting we don't really know anything. Duggan gave us the premise to his book that is it.

    Could all the members of the team swear not to kill unless their monsters or something while they hold the Avenger name? Sure. But right now we do not know that yet.



    Being a hot-head is not a Black or intrinsic Black troupe. Redheads has the same label. If Rose wants to go down that road I would like to hear his thoughts on what he believes "Scary Black Man" troupes are. Or he can choose to leave that line of discussion alone. Either way the work around is pretty.
    ....man what? The premise of the book is what it's about. I don't need to see all of the Rocky movies to know what they're about. The team assembled to deal with magical threats, that has always been up Blade's alley, even if he has to kill humans. I don't know why you're creating a hardstance on something that has never been an issue for Blade.

    Also just because a trope isn't unique to a particular demographic doesn't mean it's not a trope. You can find books written about the "angry black man" stereotype.

  5. #170
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks View Post
    ....man what? The premise of the book is what it's about. I don't need to see all of the Rocky movies to know what they're about. The team assembled to deal with magical threats, that has always been up Blade's alley, even if he has to kill humans. I don't know why you're creating a hardstance on something that has never been an issue for Blade.
    I'm taking a hard stance because I would like to see Blade as a mainstream character that is on a level of the current way Black Panther is being portrayed as opposed to how he has been used in the past. Just going by history there are certain that characters have and do that get's them to a place where they can get away with murder. Funny enough being known as a mass murder is rarely one of them.

    The premise of the book tells you what the book is about. It doesn't tell you what is actually in the book. It doesn't tell you Billy shot Sally. It doesn't tell you that Jan robbed Joe.


    Also just because a trope isn't unique to a particular demographic doesn't mean it's not a trope. You can find books written about the "angry black man" stereotype.
    Being a "hot head" and being an "angry black man" are two different things. Not only that but they are discussed differently in the context of cultural studies, terms used for discrimination and so on.
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  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Would you like to go into detail of what "Scary Black Man" tropes currently are and how they are/were applied to Blade?

    And then follow that up with how it's not a problem?

    I'll wait.
    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.../ScaryBlackMan

    I'm not sure what more you want. Technically, Blade fits. What makes Blade problematic would be more how often his black history isn't always addressed. Of course a man of his age would have experienced a lot of racism, hut we don't hear about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks View Post
    I mean they made him a hot head who seemingly had a blanket distrust for white people with no father. I'd say like the source of his anger has been one of, if not the only, well developed part of the character.
    Yeah, if he didn't have this for him, I feel like he'd be pretty flat

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Being a hot-head is not a Black or intrinsic Black troupe. Redheads has the same label. If Rose wants to go down that road I would like to hear his thoughts on what he believes "Scary Black Man" troupes are. Or he can choose to leave that line of discussion alone. Either way the work around is pretty.
    And killing people isn't a black intrinsic trope. Yet you seem to be afraid that if he starts doing that (never mind he's killed humans before according to another poster) he'll become a scary black man stereotype.

    There is one thing and one thing only that will limit or outright stop Blade's appearances. It begins with an "r" and ends with an "m".

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    I'm taking a hard stance because I would like to see Blade as a mainstream character that is on a level of the current way Black Panther is being portrayed as opposed to how he has been used in the past. Just going by history there are certain that characters have and do that get's them to a place where they can get away with murder. Funny enough being known as a mass murder is rarely one of them.
    I highly doubt Blade (or any black character from the Big 2) has a chance of being on the same level as Black Panther.


    The premise of the book tells you what the book is about. It doesn't tell you what is actually in the book. It doesn't tell you Billy shot Sally. It doesn't tell you that Jan robbed Joe.
    So what's your issue? You don't know what the book is about yet you're so sure that Blade being in it would hurt his chances of success. Never mind that one of the characters in that book has three movies and a t.v show to his name and another had a highly successful movie.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-19-2019 at 08:25 AM.

  8. #173
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p.../ScaryBlackMan

    I'm not sure what more you want. Technically, Blade fits. What makes Blade problematic would be more how often his black history isn't always addressed. Of course a man of his age would have experienced a lot of racism, hut we don't hear about it.

    Yeah, if he didn't have this for him, I feel like he'd be pretty flat
    Most of (if not all) of Blades comics have him angry because he is facing VAMPS and DEMONS. He was never really portrayed like Luke Cage who was angry at the "Man". If this is all you meant by that then I misunderstood you and I apologize.
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  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Most of (if not all) of Blades comics have him angry because he is facing VAMPS and DEMONS. He was never really portrayed like Luke Cage who was angry at the "Man". If this is all you meant by that then I misunderstood you and I apologize.
    Yeah, that's what I mean, though. I would like to see him be just a bit more racially conscious. I mean, given his age, he should remember when things were worse. And even in his earliest appearances, there wad the implication that he wasn't taken as seriously because he was the sole black man.

  10. #175

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    i wonder how different a new live-action version of Blade would be. Snipes has pretty much defined who the character is through his performance. i can't even read the character without hearing his voice/general cadence. maybe he isn't angry at all. all of his interactions with Monica Rambeau, for instance, made him seem more light-hearted. in general, i think he's mostly impatient with other people. he's been around a long time doing what he does. so anyone he interacts with would, comparitively, be an amateur. keep in mind that there are huge gaps in my Blade reading (only the really old stuff and stuff from the 2000s).

  11. #176
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And killing people isn't a black intrinsic trope. Yet you seem to be afraid that if he starts doing that (never mind he's killed humans before according to another poster) he'll become a scary black man stereotype.
    The humans he killed in story, again from what I read, were at the point of no other way of dealing with them. The rub lay within the details.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There is one thing and one thing only that will limit or outright stop Blade's appearances. It begins with an "r" and ends with an "m".
    I'm going to assume you don't want anyone to figure this incredibly cryptic message out and ignore it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I highly doubt Blade (or any black character from the Big 2) has a chance of being on the same level as Black Panther.
    Yeah, with that attitude it won't happen. It's also the attitude many immoral people who control these matters would want you to have.



    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    So what's your issue? You don't know what the book is about yet you're so sure that Blade being in it would hurt his chances of success. Never mind that one of the characters in that book has three movies and a t.v show to his name and another had a highly successful movie.
    Association can harm anyone. If someone does not understand that then they have lived a pretty privileged life. Also only two characters on that team would be ones a large number of parents would be ok with theme their birthday party after. Wolverine and Venom. Venom because Parents just think "Black Suit Spider-Man" and Wolverine because he appears in regular kid shows where he doesn't kill people in.

    What you don't seem to grasp is to be a major character you have to have Mass Appeal. When you get Mass Appeal your past deeds gets "erased" due to the number of content without said character participating in what would be viewed as negative behavior. To gain Mass Appeal you have to be accessible to children on the ready. If Blade becomes Punisher with a sword or associates with Punisher his chances of Mass Appeal go down tremendously due to his lack of material to pull from to say "Well he's not like that normally".

    The fact that I'm going out of my way to explain this hopefully signals that I may know what I'm talking about but if not, whatever . My stance is the same. I would prefer Blade stay away from a team like that until he gets more works under his belt but if he doesn't I will still support the character. I just know where he will end up as well.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 02-19-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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  12. #177
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Yeah, that's what I mean, though. I would like to see him be just a bit more racially conscious. I mean, given his age, he should remember when things were worse. And even in his earliest appearances, there wad the implication that he wasn't taken as seriously because he was the sole black man.
    I don't think that narrative fits his character. Personally.
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  13. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Yeah, that's what I mean, though. I would like to see him be just a bit more racially conscious. I mean, given his age, he should remember when things were worse. And even in his earliest appearances, there wad the implication that he wasn't taken as seriously because he was the sole black man.
    remembering isn't always caring, though. Wolverine should be more socially conscious, right? he lived through slavery and the civil rights movement. i'd say that being long lived could make race even less relevant to Blade. he's seen all of humanity's ugliness; enough to write everyone off. he's seen what tribalism leads to. he's also lived abroad and adventured with at least one group composed entirely of black men. i figure that his focus is very me vs them (Blade vs suck heads).

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    I'm taking a hard stance because I would like to see Blade as a mainstream character that is on a level of the current way Black Panther is being portrayed as opposed to how he has been used in the past. Just going by history there are certain that characters have and do that get's them to a place where they can get away with murder. Funny enough being known as a mass murder is rarely one of them.

    The premise of the book tells you what the book is about. It doesn't tell you what is actually in the book. It doesn't tell you Billy shot Sally. It doesn't tell you that Jan robbed Joe.



    Being a "hot head" and being an "angry black man" are two different things. Not only that but they are discussed differently in the context of cultural studies, terms used for discrimination and so on.
    Yes....and you said we didn't know what the book was about, when we do and it fits who Blade is.

    Also please articulate the difference between being a "hot headed" black man and being an angry black man. Bonus if you can throw in some of the studies you're referencing.

    Either way, Blade has already worked as a government sanctioned contract killer in Vanguard.
    Last edited by Tracks; 02-19-2019 at 03:41 PM.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    remembering isn't always caring, though. Wolverine should be more socially conscious, right? he lived through slavery and the civil rights movement. i'd say that being long lived could make race even less relevant to Blade. he's seen all of humanity's ugliness; enough to write everyone off. he's seen what tribalism leads to. he's also lived abroad and adventured with at least one group composed entirely of black men. i figure that his focus is very me vs them (Blade vs suck heads).
    Then again, Logan is white so race wouldn't mean to him what it means to Blade.

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