X-Men / Fantastic Four #4 Previews

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Legion's actions destroyed REALITY. EVERYONE died.

Reality has repaired itself.

Have the dead of Slorenia returned to life?

I highly doubt the law says anything about minors being allowed to leave the country without parents permission.

Technically a minor running away from home is a matter for child services. They would wonder why a child felt the need to leave his parents home and so on.

Maybe Xavier should call child services on Reed and Sue for repeated endangerment of their kids on fantastic adventures, and the fact that their unconscious mutantphobia is clearly creating a difficult home environment.

Again if Franklin and Valeria can accompany their parents on outer space trips and so on, there's no reason why going to Krakoa is too far. They have not kept them isolated and living a mundane, civilian existence.

The recourse for that is to report it to the proper authorities and then it is investigated and if warranted prosecuted....it in no way gives Magneto and Xavier carte blanche to destroy property (evidence) and telepathically assault Reed.

No, but it does mean that Reed has no grounds or leverage to report it, nor can Reed claim any moral ground. In Xavier's position, Reed would have done the same thing, and in the recent past, as Xavier mentions about the illuminati, has done the same.

[Iron Maiden]

I equate what Charles did to Reed a violation as heinous as rape. When you violate someone's body without permission in that manner IMO it is a criminal offense.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I equate what Charles did to Reed a violation as heinous as rape. When you violate someone's body without permission in that manner IMO it is a criminal offense.

Reed participated in doing that to Captain America not so very long ago.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes, that was an extreme example also that I didn't care for either. It is still a violation. I think writers sometimes don't consider the optics of what they are doing.

[Alan2099]

Reality has repaired itself.

Have the dead of Slorenia returned to life?

Dunno. Maybe. Reality has been reset since then.

That doesn't change the fact that Legion did end reality though. It just means somebody else was able to fix his mess.

Maybe Xavier should call child services on Reed and Sue for repeated endangerment of their kids on fantastic adventures, and the fact that their unconscious mutantphobia is clearly creating a difficult home environment.

This wouldn't just be a pot calling a kettle black, this was being the very essence of black itself calling a kettle black. If you want to talk about children being endangered you do NOT want to bring up Krakoa or Charles Xavier at any point in his career.

Again if Franklin and Valeria can accompany their parents on outer space trips and so on, there's no reason why going to Krakoa is too far. They have not kept them isolated and living a mundane, civilian existence.

When they go into space, the entire family goes and they certainly do set out on a trip to hang out with Annihilus, Blastar, and Maximus the Mad.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yes, that was an extreme example also that I didn't care for either. It is still a violation. I think writers sometimes don't consider the optics of what they are doing.

This brings us to the issue. Going by comicslore, nothing the X-Men have done is outside the precedents and norms set by the Avengers and Fantastic Four in 616 Continuity. It's just that some people seem to take exception when it's the mutants doing it.

That doesn't change the fact that Legion did end reality though. It just means somebody else was able to fix his mess.

Fact is, if Hank Pym/Ant-Man is a redemption story fans are invested in, there's no grounds for not extending the same benefit of the doubt to the X-Men of Krakoa, who individually and collectively do not have something that big to live down.

I mean sure Cyclops is a jerk husband but he just cheated on both of his wives, he was never abusive to them. Infidelity isn't nice of course, and Cyke deserves to pay multiple lifetime's worth of alimony, but he's otherwise a decent guy, and obviously the Poly-relationship he has set up with his missus is to everyone's benefit.

This wouldn't just be a pot calling a kettle black, this was being the very essence of black itself calling a kettle black. If you want to talk about children being endangered you do NOT want to bring up Krakoa or Charles Xavier at any point in his career.

Krakoa has resurrection facilities. They've sold their death problem.

When they go into space, the entire family goes and they certainly do set out on a trip to hang out with Annihilus, Blastar, and Maximus the Mad.

The fact is Reed and Sue are not omniscient and omnipotent godlike beings. Any time they take their kids on adventure they are risking their lives. They take the best precautions, the best measures but even then it's still a giant mega-risk.

Why is going to Krakoa such an issue then?

If Valeria can hang out with her Uncle Doom, her godfather who delivered her birth, an infamous dictator and tyrant (and twice God of the Multiverse) then why is it such a big deal for her big brother to visit Krakoa where he'll be among friends and loved ones, people who have babysat their children several times in the past.

I mean Krakoa isn't entirely filled with supervillains. Most civilians of Krakoa are ordinary civilians, children, refugees. The supervillains are a tiny minority on Krakoa and that's why so many of them are playing so nice or are forced to play nice.

[Iron Maiden]

Krakoa has resurrection facilities. They've sold their death problem.

Just an observation. I'm sure you mean "solved" instead of "sold" I've noticed some weird word auto fills or something going on at the boards in some of my posts.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Just an observation. I'm sure you mean "solved" instead of "sold" I've noticed some weird word auto fills or something going on at the boards ins some of my posts.

You are right. I meant solved.

[Chris0013]

No, but it does mean that Reed has no grounds or leverage to report it, nor can Reed claim any moral ground. In Xavier's position, Reed would have done the same thing, and in the recent past, as Xavier mentions about the illuminati, has done the same.

So your argument is that...since Reed was OK with it being done to Cap...it is OK to do it to him? Two wrongs don't make a right. And opens the door up to Beast's actions with regard to Terre Verde and what appears to be the QC's lack of action in punishing him for it.

Is it now acceptable for the same to happen to Krakoa? Is it acceptable to wipe out their population now because Beast it to another country?

As well...NOT doing what they did to Reed and taking it to the world court would be more politically advantageous...showing they are working within the structure of the world community. But it also risks them losing with a ruling that Franklin is a minor...and if parents don't want their minor children going to Krakoa...then they can't go...and if Krakoa welcomes them anyway then Krakoa looks like they are involved in child trafficking.

[BroHomo]

Again it's really astonishing and demonstrative how real-world authoritarian logic seeps into discussing people's hostility to mutants in the Marvel Universe. Logic that obviously people would not endorse in real life.

I meeeeean can You be so sure?

Reed created a device that prevented a mutant from going into the Krakoan gates. A device inserted without said mutant's knowledge and consent. In other words, Reed's action can actually be said to violate the Krakoan government's deal with UN and other nation states which was free access for all mutants to Krakoan portals. So yeah, Xavier does have the right to veto it.

Exactly that's some pretty messed up sh!t for people to be defending its existence.

I equate what Charles did to Reed a violation as heinous as rape. When you violate someone's body without permission in that manner IMO it is a criminal offense.

lol Wow, soooo you're equating what Xavier did to rape because he violated Reed in order to stop him from mass producing a gun that would violate/alter someones body without their permission.

So your argument is that...since Reed was OK with it being done to Cap...it is OK to do it to him? Two wrongs don't make a right.But it also risks them losing with a ruling that Franklin is a minor...and if parents don't want their minor children going to Krakoa...then they can't go...and if Krakoa welcomes them anyway then Krakoa looks like they are involved in child trafficking.

Only to the most Karen of observers lol

[Chris0013]

lol Wow, soooo you're equating what Xavier did to rape because he violated Reed in order to stop him from mass producing a gun that would violate/alter someones body without their permission.
Only to the most Karen of observers lol

Reed had no intention of mass producing the device.

If Franklin leaves home without his parents permission...if they know he is in Krakoa and request his return as he is a minor and Krakoa refuses...they have effectively kidnapped him.

[Iron Maiden]

lol Wow, soooo you're equating what Xavier did to rape because he violated Reed in order to stop him from mass producing a gun that would violate/alter someones body without their permission.
Only to the most Karen of observers lol

Show me in story where it says Reed was going to mass produce it. You sound like he was going to market it to Wal-Mart or something. I find it odd that you're reluctant to admit that it could be used to prevent mutants from being tracked down by Sentinels.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Reed had no intention of mass producing the device.

Reed Richards is not god. He is not omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (present everywhere at once).

Reed Richards cannot dictate or guarantee that his intentions alone will prevent another party from building on and mass producing his inventions.

In HOX/POX, Damage Control got access to his and Stark's work on "Sol's Hammer" to build a Mother Mold Sentinel machine. They exploited the fact that Stark and Reed were legally dead to get hold of it.

So Reed cannot entirely control or dictate how his inventions are used or against whom they will be used.

[Chris0013]

Reed Richards is not god. He is not omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (present everywhere at once).

Reed Richards cannot dictate or guarantee that his intentions alone will prevent another party from building on and mass producing his inventions.

In HOX/POX, Damage Control got access to his and Stark's work on "Sol's Hammer" to build a Mother Mold Sentinel machine. They exploited the fact that Stark and Reed were legally dead to get hold of it.

So Reed cannot entirely control or dictate how his inventions are used or against whom they will be used.

So if the government was to mass produce Forge's power neutrelizer...what should happen to Forge?? Have they already wiped his mind about the device?? Should Forge be killed and not brought back?? Reed did less than Forge...all Reed did was to create a device to hid his son's x-gene...Forge purposely made a device that could erase a mutants power.

Or does Forge get a pass because he is a mutant and Xavier and Magneto are hypocrites??

[Revolutionary_Jack]

So if the government was to mass produce Forge's power neutrelizer...what should happen to Forge?? Have they already wiped his mind about the device?? Should Forge be killed and not brought back?? Reed did less than Forge...all Reed did was to create a device to hid his son's x-gene...Forge purposely made a device that could erase a mutants power.

Forge was reprimanded and condemned for that by the X-Men for several years. Storm herself never entirely forgave him, even in the current Hickman run.

In either case, as Hickman's run pointed out, Forge's technological skill is not Omega level, i.e. it has a fixed definable upper-limit which can be surpassed by Reed Richards and Tony Stark.

What that means is that the X-Men have found ways to counter and overpower the use of Forge's tech owing to them updating their stuff and capacities. But the X-Men don't have any means by themselves to update and counter Reed Richards' stuff, so his inventions pose a far greater existential threat to them.