Should the MCU X-men lean heavily into the minority metophor?

[Alpha]

Also Blue Marvel, Sam Wilson or Luke Cage are not mutants. Marvel been a fiction universe, treat all this characters moslty as superheroes fighting bad guys with little thematical focus. In the marvel universe, it is better to be a POC human, than a mutant or worse a mutant POC.

And you think that's a good idea? The other guy was pointing out that it doesn't make sense, and you are repeating the reasons why it doesn't make sense and oretending that it's a defense.

[Killerbee911]

Isn't it just as likely non-mutants would look up to mutants or want to put them into positions of power?

yes but hate and feared is the story Marvel is going for so that is the box the X-men is stuck in and will always come back to using. Nothing is wrong with them using it other than it being the entire franchise rather than a component of the franchise. The X-men is dope because it can switch between a serious story about a minority metaphor to straight-up superhero action to nearly any genre of SciFi fiction. The X-men isn't ONLY a story that revolves around mutants being oppressed and discriminated against it can be other things.

[CosmiComic]

And you think that's a good idea? The other guy was pointing out that it doesn't make sense, and you are repeating the reasons why it doesn't make sense and oretending that it's a defense.

I can't believe they said PoC humans get treated better than mutants

yes but hate and feared is the story Marvel is going for so that is the box the X-men is stuck in and will always come back to using. Nothing is wrong with them using it other than it being the entire franchise rather than a component of the franchise. The X-men is dope because it can switch between a serious story about a minority metaphor to straight-up superhero action to nearly any genre of SciFi fiction. The X-men isn't ONLY a story that revolves around mutants being oppressed and discriminated against it can be other things.

Yeah, but a lot of comments keep saying X-Men would be generic without the metaphor. I disagree with that too. Aren't the individual characters what carry the franchise? Why should this huge roster of characters all be tied down to one plotline?

[Dante Milton]

The mutant metaphor is part of the core concept of the entire franchise, the X-Men aren't the X-Men without it. It is what elevates them and makes them interesting.

Yeah, but a lot of comments keep saying X-Men would be generic without the metaphor. I disagree with that too. Aren't the individual characters what carry the franchise? Why should this huge roster of characters all be tied down to one plotline?

The individual characters are shaped by a world that is constantly persecuting them. It informs their personalities, their life experiences, their relations to humanity, their relations to each other, and their choices. They would not be the same characters without that context. That's not a "plot line", it is foundational background.

And just speaking personally, the fact that the X-Men are superheroes is the least interesting thing about them. I actually find superhero books generally kind of boring and predictable. The fact that mutants exist in a world where the majority of people wish they did not is what fascinates me and is why I continue to read the books after out growing the idea of superheroes as a child. If that concept was removed from the franchise, I would have no interest in them.

[Zelena]

Yeah, but a lot of comments keep saying X-Men would be generic without the metaphor. I disagree with that too. Aren't the individual characters what carry the franchise? Why should this huge roster of characters all be tied down to one plotline?

I start reading with New X-men #1… I don’t remember thinking: “these people are oppressed…” Nightcrawler was oppressed because he looked like a devil but Storm was considered like a goddess in her country.

Their originality was that they came from very different backgrounds and had to understand each other to work together. Communication problems, soap drama were commonplace, back then.

[Vishop]

The mutant metaphor is part of the core concept of the entire franchise, the X-Men aren't the X-Men without it. It is what elevates them and makes them interesting.



The individual characters are shaped by a world that is constantly persecuting them. It informs their personalities, their life experiences, their relations to humanity, their relations to each other, and their choices. They would not be the same characters without that context. That's not a "plot line", it is foundational background.

And just speaking personally, the fact that the X-Men are superheroes is the least interesting thing about them. I actually find superhero books generally kind of boring and predictable. The fact that mutants exist in a world where the majority of people wish they did not is what fascinates me and is why I continue to read the books after out growing the idea of superheroes as a child. If that concept was removed from the franchise, I would have no interest in them.

Honestly this is the very reason why the Avengers are just plain out monotonous in comics. It only gets alluring when the book is look for more outside the box or worldbuilding.

[Kingdom X]

if it does nothing for you because it is a fox film. but what about the other people that it does something for? people who don't care about which studios make marvel films and just want to see xmen stories best put fort? as a person of color, who is not gay, it did a lot of me because sometimes I never used to tell people where I was original from due to shame that my real country was labelled a third world country in USA eyes.

It was not one issue. it was a reoccurring theme in Claremont's 16 years run. Also remember that the 90s cartoon where on tv at the height of the 90s xmen comics, and this theme was a hot topic in both. Claremont was not even a main xmen writer anymore in the 90s.

Lastly Singer been a paedophile can be separated form his art. Singer's personal life does not change the truth that he explored and really digged deep with this theme when he made the movies. the one of the few things he got right with xmen.

This scene by Singer is the worst and deadliest form of oppression I have ever seen in a comic film and I say this not as a fan but as a film scholar.


How can we now try and pretend, it never made sense just because xmen is now going to be in the MCU. It's seems way too far fetched.

I’m trying to have a discussion with you but PLEASE stop taking my comments out of context. I said that God Loves, Man Kills discussed it more than other issues. We’ve already established it was a theme throughout.

I never said the scene didn’t do anything for me because it came from Fox (I truly couldn’t care less as long as the movie is good). The scene didn’t do anything for me because as a queer person (a.k.a. the minority group that traditionally has to come out) Magneto vaguely referencing a coming out does not shake the world for me.

I only brought up Singer’s personal life because you brought up the fact that he was gay as a way to show that his movies tackled oppression in the right way.

[Doom'nGloom]

Racist can't tell difference between Muslim and Sikh will harass both of them but Human Torch gets a pass while Sunfire gets bothered. But in real life no matter how much you tell people that Obama is from the US even show birth certificate they still don't believe he is American. But we are supposed to believe irrational people hating people will be rational about superpowers. He said he is not a mutant so we believe him.

I didn't say hating mutants is rational. Most mutants are harmless. But there is a 1% that can cause enormous damage worldwide easily so its easier for a bigot to direct his hatred to the entire species just based on that 1% and even then it is extremely irrational as someone like Storm wouldn't hurt another unless it's for self defence. As for why Sunfire is hated while Human Torch isn't, I think it's because FF are celebrities who aren't burdened with being the public face of an entire species while the X-men is. And even then despite its faults Civil War showed that being a member of the FF isn't enough to save Torch from being judged by a hateful mob for the actions of others.

[Hizashi]

I start reading with New X-men #1… I don’t remember thinking: “these people are oppressed…” Nightcrawler was oppressed because he looked like a devil but Storm was considered like a goddess in her country.

Their originality was that they came from very different backgrounds and had to understand each other to work together. Communication problems, soap drama were commonplace, back then.

That's how I see it too, the minority metaphor is in the background ready to be used but it doesn't apply at every moment of a given story.

[Hizashi]

I am the opposite and i thought i was in the minority. Thor Ragnarok to me was hands down marvel best movie. I was highly entertained and have watched it 3 times on disney+. I have watched no other marvel movie more than once a lot of them never even mid way. I prefer the comics over the movies though so i prefer the movies to feel like the comics, not adapt the stories but the feelings i get from reading it.

I think the movie is good, no denying that. I enjoyed it, but not for being a Thor movie. I don't want them to go this way with the X-Men, in fact, they should cut back the quips with so many characters.

[Hizashi]

The so called mutant metaphor will never and should never be taken seriously as long as marvel tries to push the idea that the likes of Emma, Rogue, Logan, Lorna, Kitty, etc... suffer more racism, bigotry, prejudice and oppression than the Blue Marvel, Sam Wilson or Luke Cage. That outlook will never not be cringe and insulting. Put Emma and Sam Wilson side by side and ask a non comic reader who they think is more the victim of oppression and bigotry. Most if not all will say Sam and when told no actually it's the beautiful blonde rich white woman who experiences more bigotry and oppression either the one asking the question will get the side eye or outright laughed at, and the X-men franchise will most likely be seen as a joke for even suggesting that possibility. In this day and age no one thinks a rich white woman suffers more bigotry than a black man especially in the US, but they are supposed to think and accept that they do in X-men comics, it defies suspension of belief. In a world of make believe you can accept almost anything but some things you pump the breaks on. And this notion that beautiful white people with amazing abilities and living in a mansion or island paradise are oppressed more than black and brown people in the inner cities is one where you slam on the breaks hard. It's hard for anyone to take it seriously anymore.

This illustrates why the minority metaphor can't be the one theme of the X-Men - because actually, yes, in the Marvel Universe itself those white characters do experience more bigotry and prejudice than Blue Marvel or Luke Cage. There aren't entire super-machines built with the singular purpose of hunting down Blue Marvel or Sam Wilson - that doesn't mean they don't experience their share of racism, etc. but the scale is completely different.

The answer to this problem isn't to start race-swapping characters, it's to scale in the other direction, show that there are people willing to stand up for the rights of mutants and actually make progress in that direction.

[CosmiComic]

The mutant metaphor is part of the core concept of the entire franchise, the X-Men aren't the X-Men without it. It is what elevates them and makes them interesting.



The individual characters are shaped by a world that is constantly persecuting them. It informs their personalities, their life experiences, their relations to humanity, their relations to each other, and their choices. They would not be the same characters without that context. That's not a "plot line", it is foundational background.

And just speaking personally, the fact that the X-Men are superheroes is the least interesting thing about them. I actually find superhero books generally kind of boring and predictable. The fact that mutants exist in a world where the majority of people wish they did not is what fascinates me and is why I continue to read the books after out growing the idea of superheroes as a child. If that concept was removed from the franchise, I would have no interest in them.

There's more to all these characters than just what you describe. And when it comes to oppression, why don't they address the other factors?

I start reading with New X-men #1… I don’t remember thinking: “these people are oppressed…” Nightcrawler was oppressed because he looked like a devil but Storm was considered like a goddess in her country.

Their originality was that they came from very different backgrounds and had to understand each other to work together. Communication problems, soap drama were commonplace, back then.

Exactly

Honestly this is the very reason why the Avengers are just plain out monotonous in comics. It only gets alluring when the book is look for more outside the box or worldbuilding.

I kinda feel the opposite. The persecution thing makes all the X-Men a bit too restricted for me, while the Avengers go out and have different kinds of adventures

[Hizashi]

These "the metaphor is outdated/senseless" arguments are all for naught as they will racebend the majority of white X-Men. Just look at the Eternals cast. If they are somehow reflective of Celestials, who may also influence how mutants come to being in the MCU, how will the X-Men be less diverse than the Eternals?

Also, it makes sense in more ways than one. Erik can't be a Holocaust survivor now so the most effective alternative is to make Charles and him be African-American children in the Civil Rights era, reflecting MLK and Malcolm X respectively as Stan Lee (retroactively) claimed them to be.

Similar reason why if they go the First Class route, Scott, Jean, Warren and Hank could also be POC's. Bobby being gay already makes him a minority.

So real-life minorities playing the majority of X-Men refreshes and revitalizes the metaphor. Problem solved.

That doesn't refresh or revitalize it, that puts it right in your face - it's called on the nose. And it doesn't leave room for other interpretations, the X-Men become all about race.

[Kingdom X]

I kinda feel the opposite. The persecution thing makes all the X-Men a bit too restricted for me, while the Avengers go out and have different kinds of adventures

Can you cite an example of when the X-Men's stories were restricted? Cause the metaphor didn't stop them from having adventures in Asgard, Mojoverse, Otherworld, the Savage Land, outer space, etc. The franchise is even known for its iconic time travel and alternate universe stories.

I've already stated my underlying opinion that there's a way to balance it to have all parties happy.

[CosmiComic]

Can you cite an example of when the X-Men's stories were restricted? Cause the metaphor didn't stop them from having adventures in Asgard, Mojoverse, Otherworld, the Savage Land, outer space, etc. The franchise is even known for its iconic time travel and alternate universe stories.

I've already stated my underlying opinion that there's a way to balance it to have all parties happy.

Maybe restricted is the wrong word, but the repeated persecutions and extinction events and the whole "humans vs mutants" thing generally seems to take over the X-Men. Things like the Decimation are what I'm talking about. My main point is I don't see the Avengers stuck on this one kind of thing but get to have different kinds of stories. The X-Men do also, but the whole persecution business always pops back up