The Outsiders Appreciation/Discussion thread 2020

[Frontier]

well this kicks off in January, and end of December we're getting Duke's Dark Multiverse book where he's gathering his own future justice league (well, his is more of a dystopian post-apocalyptic League), so I'm hopefully that they'll keep the Duke momentum going by having him on Katana's team. I mean we get him next week in Robin King, followed by an appearance in Death Metal, and then he's starring in his own story with Dark Multiverse following that up; it just seems logic. for all we know he could be Red X, Shiva did suggest Duke use dark red as his color in outsiders

and we do know Cass, Steph, Tim, Nightwing, and Red Hood all appear in Future State, so it looks like they're aiming to hit a wide breadth of Batman's world in this thing.

Red X is a former Titans student, so unless Duke became a Titans mentee off-screen during the time-skip...

[lemonpeace]

Red X is a former Titans student, so unless Duke became a Titans mentee off-screen during the time-skip...

I don't think Duke is actually Red X, I was just throwing out a random theory (plus I hadn't read the solicits yet when I posted) while poking a little fun at the fact that I don't think Hill ever "got" Duke on his Outsiders run.

[J. D. Guy]

I was just being tongue and cheek, but honestly i just think Hill doesn't like Duke, in concept i mean, which is why he kept trying to make Duke "cool" and edgy; like Batman.

Sober thought, but that's probably the best way to conclude things, given Hill's decisions regarding Duke and his (willful?) ignorance of Duke's past beyond his Superhero name.

[Aahz]

I finally read the last arc of batman and the Outsiders, for me it felt more like the writers trying to setting these characters up for something, instead of really telling an interesting story.

Shiva felt really out of character to me.

[Robanker]

I just want a Katana and Black Lightning book now. Damn.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I just want a Katana and Black Lightning book now. Damn.

Hill's run would've worked better as BL miniseries to me.

[Ironmonk]

I just want a Katana and Black Lightning book now. Damn.

Agreed, best part of the book was their adventures together.

[lemonpeace]

Hill's run would've worked better as BL miniseries to me.

agreed, i think Hill isn't suited to a team dynamic. Had he been on a book focused on Black Lightning, or Black Lightning and Katana, it would have been far better of a read.

[Robanker]

agreed, i think Hill isn't suited to a team dynamic. He had been in a book focused on Black Lightning, or Black Lightning and Katana, would have been far better of a read.

I'm with you. I went into this book mostly for BL with some Katana and Cass, but all the most memorable moments are Jeff, Tatsu's or both. I hope that in March we get a follow up mini with them. I doubt it'll happen, but I can hope.

[Ironmonk]

I'm with you. I went into this book mostly for BL with some Katana and Cass, but all the most memorable moments are Jeff, Tatsu's or both. I hope that in March we get a follow up mini with them. I doubt it'll happen, but I can hope.

Yeah, BL and Tat's barely interacted with Duke and Cass. If you remove Duke from the plot, does the story even change? Cause my dude feels like he was just...there. Not to mention the removal of his light powers. Giving him dark powers made it feel like Hill was trying to make him dark and edgy like the rest of the bat characters.

[James Hunter]

I just want a Katana and Black Lightning book now. Damn.

I'd be up for that (I wouldn't mind a Cass and Duke book either but that's just me, that may be more a one-shot or mini Tatsu and Jeff could support an on-going IMHO)

[Marvell2100]

Honestly, I don't see why they had to break up the team. The obvious thing to do was remove Batman from the team entirely and just call then The Outsiders.

DC's problem is that most if not all of their teams are either JL-related or Batman-related(GL Corp is the exception). They're not confident enough in their characters to put together a team that isn't connected to either and build up something from their. There's no Champions, Defenders, New Warriors or Atlas to be a home for other heroes. And that's really sad.

[Robanker]

Yeah, BL and Tat's barely interacted with Duke and Cass. If you remove Duke from the plot, does the story even change? Cause my dude feels like he was just...there. Not to mention the removal of his light powers. Giving him dark powers made it feel like Hill was trying to make him dark and edgy like the rest of the bat characters.

Not even a bit. Hill seemed to have him more as an editorial mandate. Duke was a guest in the book, Shiva was more of an Outsider than he was by the end. Shame, but that's how it played out. Sadly, nobody knows what to do with him and I'm starting to think he's going to get written out in a few years.

I guess the irony is that Duke was the real outsider the whole time. I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

[J. D. Guy]

Not even a bit. Hill seemed to have him more as an editorial mandate. Duke was a guest in the book, Shiva was more of an Outsider than he was by the end. Shame, but that's how it played out. Sadly, nobody knows what to do with him and I'm starting to think he's going to get written out in a few years.

I guess the irony is that Duke was the real outsider the whole time. I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Oh, believe me, we've seen writers who know/knew exactly what to do with Duke. They just aren't being allowed to do it to the extents that they should, not to mention the reader push-back that's plagued Duke since his inception.

Hill's an obvious poor example when it comes to Duke. But it's ignorant to say that just because he was only interested in Duke to provide angst for Batman that this suddenly deems that no one knows what to do with Duke's character.

[Digifiend]

Honestly, I don't see why they had to break up the team. The obvious thing to do was remove Batman from the team entirely and just call then The Outsiders.

DC's problem is that most if not all of their teams are either JL-related or Batman-related(GL Corp is the exception). They're not confident enough in their characters to put together a team that isn't connected to either and build up something from their. There's no Champions, Defenders, New Warriors or Atlas to be a home for other heroes. And that's really sad.

The Champions are the current counterpart of the Teen Titans. New Warriors is the counterpart of the older Titans (and Young Avengers = Young Justice). I would actually say that Defenders and Outsiders are counterparts, though unlike the teen teams, the Marvel one came first. And Atlas? Justice Society.