Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Besouro]

I still say Hunter is the Nick Fury of Wakanda

Meeeh!!!

We already have several white superspy types all over media and now you want another whitespy FOR AN AFRICAN GLOBALLY LEADING TECH NATION.

Nah man....nope!

Let Shuri be the Wakandan "Nick Fury with P.R.I.D.E as her team. As much I may never forgive Maberry for the atrocity that was Doomwar, I admit to liking his Shuri and her P.R.I.D.E idea.

But given the whole movie synergy bit of scientist Shuri then I will have one of the Leading DM characters as the Nick Fury or Black widow type.

Hunter was foooorced into BP lore so hard in the most cliche trope manner......and represents characters to similar to white savior of savages type heroes like Tarzan, Sheena and The Phantom. The whole survives a transport accident (plane crash or shipwreck) or assassination attempt only to find himself in an isolated land of non-whites then is accepted and raised (which is fine) and somehow becomes their leader champion (nationalist in the case of Hunter).

I get it that Priest tried to NOT make Hunter into The Phantom type character by making Hunter always feel like an outsider and Wakandans never truly accepting him inspite of the affections of the Royal family that raised him ....and the supposed entitlement from Hunter who feels he was robbed of the throne because he is not a biological son of king Tchaka.

I dunno...Hunter is messy and I can see why Hudlin completely refused to use him and had the foresight to create Shuri because if Hudlin hadn't done that....we would have gotten a "The Phantom" situation with Hunter becoming king when BP was brutally wounded by Doom.

That scenario can still happen in "John Carter" type manner were some future idiot writer will suddenly claim that Hunter and Shuri are secretly starcrossed lovers... "White savior gets the princess/queen". This would be presented in a terribly forced "forbidden love" type story. I suspect the longer Hunter remains in limbo, the sooner this tragedy might happen.

As much as I like TNC shipping Shuri and Manifold..he hasn't really done much to cement it to make it solid enough to be a strong ongoing relationship like Storm/BP and Monica/Adam.

Priest also never developed Hunter's background beyond just a plane crash... apparently Priest got hella pressure to put white characters in BP mythos.lololool! He did a better job with creation and use of Ross than Hunter...IMO.

I was make Everette Ross the younger more timid brother of the Hulk's General Ross/Red Hulk.

Hunter....hmmm....I dunno...I would make him a humanoid alien lost prince to some alien space kingdom now ruled in tyranny. Tchalla helps Hunter reclaim his throne and an intergalactic is established similar to the US/UK partnership. Stipulate the plane crash was actually a starship crashing and Hunter's human form is bio-holographic alien tech embedded under Hunter's skin based on european tv broadcasts the starship received from orbit. Hunter's parents were killed in an assassination, their body guard escaped with Hunter in the starship whicj which was chased by the assassin's until it was shot, damaged and it crash landed in Wakanda.

Alien bodyguard gravely wounded by the crash King Tchaka was first on the scene soon joined by the queen and the Wakandan army....the dyeing bodyguards offers infant Hunter to Tchaka before its last breathe. However both the Queen and Tchaka had witnessed baby Hunter transform in his human form, the bodyguard activated the bio-holographic sub-dermal tech before dying.

Tchaka used Wakandan tech to digitize the mind of the alien bodyguard who has been used as a living cyber-security program over the DECADES which most Wakandans (including Hunter) thought was just an a.i.

The pursuing aliens assassins were either defeated or a shield camoflage hid Wakanda from their sensors so they left.

Hunter of course goes through a personal crisis with the revelation that he isn't human, why BP has kept this secret from him all this time, the whole "my entire life has been a lie" arc which could go either way.....Hunter becomes a villain (temporarily) rampages against BP and Wakanda...almost destroys Wakanda but is soundly defeated Shuri while Tchalla does another one of his tech feats to save Wakanda.

Tchalla, Shuri and Ramonda apologise and appeal to Hunter who also apologize and make up.

Hunter discards his human form accepting who he is as an alien realising that the constant outsider feeling he always felt was his sub-conscious wrestling against the facade of his life and appearance... but he retains the subdermal bio-hologram implants(sdbhi) as part of his gear for spy activities. Tchalla created tech that enables Hunter to have control and use the sdbhi.

BP and Shuri alongside Hunter now use this Wakandan/alien kingdom unity to develop the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda (IGEW) of course written in Priest n Hickman type fashion political intrigue, scheming, scifi thriller, action and character introspection.

In such a story, I would make Shuri and Alien Hunter lovers. Alien Hunter becomes a King with Shuri as Queen on this alien kingdom making Shuri royalty of two kingdoms.

Sorry for the lengthy synopsis but that's just my idea for Hunter.....use this character to expand the BP mythos and give both Hunter and Shuri more agency. It gets Hunter out of that semi- "The Phantom" "John Carter" -in waiting archetype. Hunter will now have his own nation albeit

This an opportunity to put BP on the Intergalactic stage as a political, socio-economic and battle tactician which also cements (and frankly verifies) BP as Earth's rep on the council of worlds were we get to see BP, Wakanda and Shuri engage on a cosmic level.

Several spin off titles can result...whew....sorry again for being over-verbose.

Thoughts?

[Blind Wedjat]

I will only consider accepting Hunter back into Wakandan lore if he stops looking like a white man. Human or alien, I don't care.

[Besouro]

I think the fact that Hunter is an antagonist likely means we don't have a whole lot to worry about as far as him being viewed as a white savior. The fact that he's both family just makes it more personal, which I think is a good thing.

Frankly speaking Hunter isn't much of an antagonist.

Do u know how easy it would have been if Tchalla had remained the only child.....just to have him be mortally wounded then BAM! Hunter is now crown prince.

Hudlin was very smart to introduce Uncle Syan and create Shuri so that if Tchalla is absent (for whatever reason) then the crown goes to Shuri....if both Shuri and Tchalla are absent then the crown goes to the uncle of the king/Syan....if Syan is absent, it goes to Syan's son or daughter whereby in which case the Bashenga royal bloodline retains the crown leadership.

Despite the above, Hunter still carries a "white saviour" narrative being a protector and "nationalist" of a black nation.

Ross is far better and was introduced into the BP mythos more organically using international affairs between countries having Ross working in the US state department assigned to BP. Even if he is with the CIA as in the BP movie, it still works.

[Besouro]

I will only consider accepting Hunter back into Wakandan lore if he stops looking like a white man. Human or alien, I don't care.

Hunter being an alien (preferably non-humanoid or humanoid with very non-human characteristics) carries much more weight providing wider creative landscape to expand the BP mythos.....IMO.

Just making him another random human outsider (of whatever race) would be so ordinary pedestrian and very meh which contributes jack shyte to the BP mythos.

[DigiCom]

I think you are all underselling the Hunter concept. He's essentially a convert to Wakandan philosophy, who gre up in the society even though he (visibly) isn't a part of it. And history has shown that there are no greater zealots than converts.

That being said, I don't see any point in bringing him back, because at the end of the day, his story has been told. If he's an adversary, he'll fall into the same trap as Killmonger & Klaw... telling the same story, over and over, with only details changing. And if he's a mistrusted ally, the Maximus to T'Challa's Black Bolt, then the only thing you can do really is have him hang around until his "sudden & inevitable betrayal", at which point he devolves to case 1.

Instead, my proposal (one I've been suggesting for years) is to FINALLY bring Kasper Cole into the cast officially, instead of just guest appearances once every blue moon. Make him the new White Wolf, instead of Akili the non-entity. There, he serves multiple roles:

1) He's the outsider, like Killmonger & Hunter.
2) He brings a Western perspective, like Ross, but as he's biracial, it sidesteps the whole "token white" problem.
3) He's a sarcastic bastard, which adds humor the book badly needs.
4) He gives T'Challa deniability in case some less-than noble actions are needed, without relying on someone like Hunter.
5) He could also take over the Agents, freeing Okoye to actually act like a Dora instead of playing spymaster.

I honestly don't see any downsides, but I'll let you guys correct me.

[DigiCom]

Random thought:

If/when BP gets his own Event™, how many of you want to bet that it will end up being some sort of "every hero gets empowered by Bast or some other African god" deal?

They do so love their "heroes as variants of another hero" bit, and this would give them the chance to do "Pantherized covers". :P

[chief12d]

This is true, I really don't like how Marvel is handling the BP franchise. What's worse is when those faile? T'Challa is the one who loses

It’s a set up for failure. Marvel vastly overestimated the amount of interest people have in Shuri and the Dora Milaje as properties independent of T’Challa, not realizing that what social media and the press love isn’t necessarily going to be supported on the direct or even indirect market (as most of these books barring WoW failed on both). At least not immediately.

Instead of turning the solo into a vehicle for these C-list characters to audition for short lived spin-offs Marvel should’ve streamlined the solo book with a tight supporting cast and told T’Challa-centric storylines that also gave them depth. That way you could organically build interest in those characters over the course of 20-30 issues and then release a smaller roster of books with actual quality attached to them.

I want the BP franchise to be an ecosystem of characters on the level of Gotham over at DC. I’d love there to be multiple ongoings like Shuri and Agents of Wakanda, but it takes years to get to that point and Marvel thought they could skip step 1 which is have a strong lead for the entire IP. We wouldn’t have Nightwing, Batgirl, and Red Hood series if Batman and his world wasn’t firmly established first.

[Cville]

Random thought:

If/when BP gets his own Event™, how many of you want to bet that it will end up being some sort of "every hero gets empowered by Bast or some other African god" deal?

They do so love their "heroes as variants of another hero" bit, and this would give them the chance to do "Pantherized covers". :P

I think it will be some Vb armor upgrade.

[chief12d]

I think you are all underselling the Hunter concept. He's essentially a convert to Wakandan philosophy, who gre up in the society even though he (visibly) isn't a part of it. And history has shown that there are no greater zealots than converts.

That being said, I don't see any point in bringing him back, because at the end of the day, his story has been told. If he's an adversary, he'll fall into the same trap as Killmonger & Klaw... telling the same story, over and over, with only details changing. And if he's a mistrusted ally, the Maximus to T'Challa's Black Bolt, then the only thing you can do really is have him hang around until his "sudden & inevitable betrayal", at which point he devolves to case 1.

Instead, my proposal (one I've been suggesting for years) is to FINALLY bring Kasper Cole into the cast officially, instead of just guest appearances once every blue moon. Make him the new White Wolf, instead of Akili the non-entity. There, he serves multiple roles:

1) He's the outsider, like Killmonger & Hunter.
2) He brings a Western perspective, like Ross, but as he's biracial, it sidesteps the whole "token white" problem.
3) He's a sarcastic bastard, which adds humor the book badly needs.
4) He gives T'Challa deniability in case some less-than noble actions are needed, without relying on someone like Hunter.
5) He could also take over the Agents, freeing Okoye to actually act like a Dora instead of playing spymaster.

I honestly don't see any downsides, but I'll let you guys correct me.

I’ve been an advocate of Kaspar becoming the Coal Tiger and becoming the resident representative of the Hatut Zeraze for a while now for all the reasons you mentioned. Alongside Shuri, Okoye, and T’Challa’s love interest, I think Kaspar should be part of the core supporting cast appearing basically every other issue and getting development as a side character. So much potential is being wasted with him and it’ll probably take the MCU introducing him for the comics to realize the value he has as T’Challa’s personal intelligence agent/spymaster.

[DigiCom]

I’ve been an advocate of Kaspar becoming the Coal Tiger and becoming the resident representative of the Hatut Zeraze for a while now for all the reasons you mentioned. Alongside Shuri, Okoye, and T’Challa’s love interest, I think Kaspar should be part of the core supporting cast appearing basically every other issue and getting development as a side character. So much potential is being wasted with him and it’ll probably take the MCU introducing him for the comics to realize the value he has as T’Challa’s personal intelligence agent/spymaster.

I'm not crazy about the Coal Tiger name, but otherwise, I'm with you.

[Vanguard]

I think it will be some Vb armor upgrade.

I kind of wish they would make it clear he’s low superhuman. Or even better generally superhuman.

[Ezyo1000]

I think you are all underselling the Hunter concept. He's essentially a convert to Wakandan philosophy, who gre up in the society even though he (visibly) isn't a part of it. And history has shown that there are no greater zealots than converts.

That being said, I don't see any point in bringing him back, because at the end of the day, his story has been told. If he's an adversary, he'll fall into the same trap as Killmonger & Klaw... telling the same story, over and over, with only details changing. And if he's a mistrusted ally, the Maximus to T'Challa's Black Bolt, then the only thing you can do really is have him hang around until his "sudden & inevitable betrayal", at which point he devolves to case 1.

Instead, my proposal (one I've been suggesting for years) is to FINALLY bring Kasper Cole into the cast officially, instead of just guest appearances once every blue moon. Make him the new White Wolf, instead of Akili the non-entity. There, he serves multiple roles:

1) He's the outsider, like Killmonger & Hunter.
2) He brings a Western perspective, like Ross, but as he's biracial, it sidesteps the whole "token white" problem.
3) He's a sarcastic bastard, which adds humor the book badly needs.
4) He gives T'Challa deniability in case some less-than noble actions are needed, without relying on someone like Hunter.
5) He could also take over the Agents, freeing Okoye to actually act like a Dora instead of playing spymaster.

I honestly don't see any downsides, but I'll let you guys correct me.

This works, he already has a new look so it doesn't hurt, and yeah him becoming white wolf works, and it DOES give T'Challa another bro to hangout with. No real downsides other then dealing with Kaspers family sometimes

[Blind Wedjat]

Hunter being an alien (preferably non-humanoid or humanoid with very non-human characteristics) carries much more weight providing wider creative landscape to expand the BP mythos.....IMO.

Just making him another random human outsider (of whatever race) would be so ordinary pedestrian and very meh which contributes jack shyte to the BP mythos.

Note that I said I will consider accepting him as long as he wasn't white. I never liked the character regardless and he's outlasted his use.

Your alien idea is interesting but I don't see why he has to have a European looking disguise for it to work. That means based on your synopsis he would be shedding one outsider image for another outsider image. Wouldn't the theme of embracing his true nature be better served if the disguise allowed him to actually be black (and you can further go with this by saying it isn't black skin that makes one Wakandan, but their spirit and values etc.)?

If we want the White Wolf moniker to work because we want Hunter to have white skin, why not just make him a Wakandan with albinism?

[Ezyo1000]

It’s a set up for failure. Marvel vastly overestimated the amount of interest people have in Shuri and the Dora Milaje as properties independent of T’Challa, not realizing that what social media and the press love isn’t necessarily going to be supported on the direct or even indirect market (as most of these books barring WoW failed on both). At least not immediately.

Instead of turning the solo into a vehicle for these C-list characters to audition for short lived spin-offs Marvel should’ve streamlined the solo book with a tight supporting cast and told T’Challa-centric storylines that also gave them depth. That way you could organically build interest in those characters over the course of 20-30 issues and then release a smaller roster of books with actual quality attached to them.

I want the BP franchise to be an ecosystem of characters on the level of Gotham over at DC. I’d love there to be multiple ongoings like Shuri and Agents of Wakanda, but it takes years to get to that point and Marvel thought they could skip step 1 which is have a strong lead for the entire IP. We wouldn’t have Nightwing, Batgirl, and Red Hood series if Batman and his world wasn’t firmly established first.

Essentially Marvel comics did what DCU tried to do on the movie side to catch up to the MCU. You would think there would be someone up top thinking "Hey maybe we should slow this down, and Maybe this new guy we are bringing In with zero comic experience should have some oversight and have a veteran there or an editor who gives a damn to keep him in check" Instead they foolishly thought his name and the initial hype was all him and that would sustain ishtty writing

[Marvell2100]

Random thought:

If/when BP gets his own Event™, how many of you want to bet that it will end up being some sort of "every hero gets empowered by Bast or some other African god" deal?

They do so love their "heroes as variants of another hero" bit, and this would give them the chance to do "Pantherized covers". :P

If anything it will be vibranium related.

My idea for an event is this:

World War Wakanda!

40 years ago, Wakanda is embroiled in a decades old cold war with a nation whose technological might rivals its' own, Kiber Island! Frederick Kiber was a scientific genius whose brilliance was matched only by his ruthlessness! Filled with dreams of global domination, he built Kiber Island as a launching pad in his quest to rule the world! The only thing missing was the one precious metal that he desperately needed for his plan, Vibranium which brought him into conflict with King T'Chaka and Wakanda! After years of war, the two nations had finally reached a stalemate in their long battle. But one day, inexplicably, there was a huge explosion on Kiber Island causing it to sink and with it killing every living soul!

Today, from the bottom of the ocean, Kiber Island rises again, rebuilt and more powerful than before! But even more surprising, Kiber blames Wakanda for the explosion that sunk his island and accuses them of genocide in the deaths of millions. As nations around the world begin to discuss the issue, there is talk of those who believe Kiber and want Wakanda held accountable and punished. Some nations have already begun to enact The Wakanda Protocols, a comprehensive detail plan on how to attack the most powerful nation on the planet. They have even assembled a team of superhumans whose sole mission is to take down the Black Panther.

King T'Challa denies Wakanda having anything to do with the destruction of Kiber Island and warns the rest of the world not to act against Wakanda or it's interests or suffer the consequences. Wakanda will defend itself by any means necessary!

Thus begins World War Wakanda.