Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[gwangung]

No, a Civil War storyline at this point would involve Cap, Falcon, Iron Man, War Machine, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Thor, Hulk, and various ex-SHIELD personnel. As everyone has said, that's too small to adequately represent that particular storyline,

It's too small to replicate the comics storyline, yes.

But too small to represent the themes presented in comics? Don't be too sure of that....

(ETA: Telling an effective story doesn't mean having hundreds of characters named and having lines---I think we might have enough now).

[Toonimator]

Sounds like Secret Warriors coming up.

That's what I was thinking, too, after this last episode. On the old board, someone (can't recall who) kept bitching about how the showrunners were trashing Secret Warriors all over the place by the way Garrett & Koenig were reimagined for MAOS (possibly some other elements, too)... but maybe it's not so much 'trashing' the Secret Warriors comic as giving references to it while setting up Coulson's team to become the MCU-Fury's "Secret Warriors".

[zhris]

Did anyone else hear anything about Fury being in the season finale?

http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/jacks...ld-finale.html

[Kalen O.]

It's too small to replicate the comics storyline, yes.

But too small to represent the themes presented in comics? Don't be too sure of that....

(ETA: Telling an effective story doesn't mean having hundreds of characters named and having lines---I think we might have enough now).

No, you don't need hundreds of characters to tell an effective story. But to effectively tell the Civil War story, from a thematic perspective, it does need to be an ideological conflict on a massive scale, because that was the entire point of it. A handful of characters can not have any kid of CIVIL WAR. At best they can have a disagreement, possibly with an actual fight between a few of them, which we basically already saw in the first Avengers movie.

There have been countless stories that pit hero against hero for a variety of reasons. What made Civil War different was it was a widespread ideological conflict that forced everyone to take sides, that it was literally too big and far-reaching for any hero to avoid or sit out for. That just doesn't work when you can count all the super-powered characters in the Marvel cinematic universe on one hand, considering the thematic conflict is about them, not highly skilled SHIELD operatives with a bow and arrow or mechanized wings the army has whole platoons of.

[DrNewGod]

The other problem I see is Cap and Iron Man in the MCU would be on opposite sides as they were in the MU.

Movie Cap still believes in American and the government enough to probably push anything they were pushing like a registry, he enlisted in the Army (and then SHIELD) so he'd be fine with it if they sell it as enlistment or a draft.

Respectfully, I would suggest that your interpretation does not correspond with the Cap that CA:TWS showed us at all. He was perfectly willing to disagree with - and even walk out on - a government that he thought was disguising absolutism with freedom.

[Carabas]

It's too small to replicate the comics storyline, yes.

But too small to represent the themes presented in comics? Don't be too sure of that...

Well, the cinematic universe so far is one in which secret identities don't even exist so far...
A version of the SHRA is and has always been the normal status quo for the movie-verse.

[Starleafgirl]

Respectfully, I would suggest that your interpretation does not correspond with the Cap that CA:TWS showed us at all. He was perfectly willing to disagree with - and even walk out on - a government that he thought was disguising absolutism with freedom.

Good point.

[Spike-X]

Civil War was contrived crap, and shoehorning it into the MCU would make it feel even more forced than it was in the comics.

So there.

[kalorama]

Civil War was contrived crap, and shoehorning it into the MCU would make it feel even more forced than it was in the comics.

So there.

What he said.

[kalorama]

That wasn't quite registering them to be allowed to use their powers but SHIELD and The Avengers being tied in together kinda was.

The other problem I see is Cap and Iron Man in the MCU would be on opposite sides as they were in the MU.
Movie Cap still believes in American and the government enough to probably push anything they were pushing like a registry, he enlisted in the Army (and then SHIELD) so he'd be fine with it if they sell it as enlistment or a draft.

Meanwhile MCU Tony fought with congress (granted a Hydra plant but still) doesn't want the military to have his tech and as Maria Hill mentioned is privatizing security, so more than likely wouldn't want superheroes on a government list to be allowed to operate since he likes to operate without their sanction.

Respectfully, I would suggest that your interpretation does not correspond with the Cap that CA:TWS showed us at all. He was perfectly willing to disagree with - and even walk out on - a government that he thought was disguising absolutism with freedom.

Which would make the prospect of an MCU Civil War even more remote, because both Cap and Stark would, essentially, be on the same side of the issue.

[Vidocq]

Which would make the prospect of an MCU Civil War even more remote, because both Cap and Stark would, essentially, be on the same side of the issue.

Maybe Nick Fury and a reformed SHIELD Agents would be strong enough characters to fill in Tony's shoes.

[kalorama]

Maybe Nick Fury and a reformed SHIELD Agents would be strong enough characters to fill in Tony's shoes.

Would this be the same Nick Fury who faked his own death and went into hiding because he found out that a hi-tech Nazi cult bent on world domination had infiltrated the international intelligence network he ran, headed by a high ranking U.S. government official who he thought was his friend and mentor, who sent Fury's own men to assassinate him? Maybe I'm too cynical, but he seems like a somewhat unlikely candidate to lead the charge to have people with the power to level city blocks sign on to be government lackeys, what with his trust issues and all.

In the wake of Winter Soldier, I can't imagine anyone in the MCU thinking putting that centralizing that kind of power under the control of a single government agency would be a good idea.

[Kalen O.]

I still don't get what people think would even be the point of a Civil War storyline in the Marvel U. The core nature of the conflict in the comics was a reaction to years of costumed vigilantes and heroes operating outside of the law, with no official authority, oversight or accountability. Many of them untrained, with that being used as an argument that they could endanger the very lives of those they claimed to want to protect. It wasn't even about superpowers per se.

That's just not a valid conflict in the Marvel Movie-verse where literally the only one who could feasibly be labeled a costumed vigilante is Tony Stark. Hawkeye isn't a masked ex-carnie here, he was a SHIELD operative, as was Captain America and Black Widow. Falcon is ex-military, War Machine is current military, Hulk isn't an outlaw in hiding, he was formerly exactly where SHIELD could find him whenever they needed, and currently is on Tony's speed dial by all accounts. And Thor is so far outside of any Earth authority's jurisdiction its not even funny. Literally EVERY single character who could possibly be involved in this conflict is publicly known, officially trained and or endorsed. Even with SHIELD gone, everyone knows exactly who they are and how to find them.

So....where is the conflict here? What is the ideological divide that would pit ANY of these heroes against each other, or even against Nick Fury, SHIELD, or any other legitimate authority?

[Vic Vega]

Remember Black Widow's little speech at the hearings at the end of Winter Soldier?

I could see that "You won't put us in jail, you need us" attitude not sitting well with people like AoS' Glenn Talbot and his sympathizers .

After all that has happend the US Government would not trust any SHIELD operative or ex SHIELD operative (other than Cap, who blew the lid off the thing himself).

And if you paid attention to the stuff Rhodey was saying to Stark in the restaurant scene in IM3, the US military didnt ever trust SHIELD all that much.

Any independent organization post WS could be seen by the US government in the same hostile light.

I can't see them being happy about Stark plan to "Privatize world security" as Maria Hill put it.

All that does from that perspective would be to exchange Nick Fury for Tony Stark. They still wouldn't have any control either way.

So your Civil War scenario would pit those characters willing to work for the American Military outright against those who won't.

Or can't in Banner's case.

[DrNewGod]

Any independent organization post WS could be seen by the US government in the same hostile light.

I can't see them being happy about Stark plan to "Privatize world security" as Maria Hill put it.

All that does from that perspective would be to exchange Nick Fury for Tony Stark. They still wouldn't have any control either way.

So your Civil War scenario would pit those characters willing to work for the American Military outright against those who won't.

Or can't in Banner's case.

So, that would mean Civil War in the MCU would be maybe Rhodey v. Everybody else? Or that all MCU characters basically start living out the core plot of the Hulk?

Just can't see CW working in the MCU.

Looking forward to the next ep so this thread can go back to MAoS.