Batman vs Goku

[The Dog]

and if marvel has taught us anything, cancer kills everyone.

Except Wakandans. Because they've got the cure for cancer, but won't share. Not even to friends dying of cancer.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

No, though it does raise an interesting question of what baseline Goku would start at. Most characters with force fields don't start with them up unless they are autoshields. If Goku has to consciously raise his durability, wouldn't he default to his "resting" state? I'd imagine stipulating he begins a fight at SSB or something would suffice, but that wouldn't be assumed anymore than Magneto starting with a field up.

If you assume the laser shot thing is valid and not just a plot hole, it does actually make Goku a lot more susceptible to blitz than one would assume.

It's always been a thing, I think.

Recall in older Dragonball that a stronger opponent could still lose to someone who was weaker if the weaker person caught the off guard

[big_adventure]

No, though it does raise an interesting question of what baseline Goku would start at. Most characters with force fields don't start with them up unless they are autoshields. If Goku has to consciously raise his durability, wouldn't he default to his "resting" state? I'd imagine stipulating he begins a fight at SSB or something would suffice, but that wouldn't be assumed anymore than Magneto starting with a field up.

If you assume the laser shot thing is valid and not just a plot hole, it does actually make Goku a lot more susceptible to blitz than one would assume.

Eh, it's pretty inconsistent however. The Z boys have been taken completely by surprise many times and survived kill-type shots from planet buster plus people just fine.

Also, to blitz modern Goku & Vegeta level dudes, you'd need some pretty hefty super speed.

[Nik Hasta]

Eh, it's pretty inconsistent however. The Z boys have been taken completely by surprise many times and survived kill-type shots from planet buster plus people just fine.

I'm struggling to think of an example of this.

They've been blindsided in a fight any number of times, but that's already in a pre-existing combat situation.

Where have they been completely taken off guard by a planet buster?

[Jackalope89]

I'm struggling to think of an example of this.

They've been blindsided in a fight any number of times, but that's already in a pre-existing combat situation.

Where have they been completely taken off guard by a planet buster?

Tournament of Power recruitment Arc. When Goku got Freeza, and made it back to Earth, he and Freeza were ambushed by would be assassins. After dealing with most of them, one tossed Hakai energy (God of Destruction energy) at Freeza, whom was able to get it control of it. Freeza then tossed it at an unprepared Goku. This is the kind of energy where only a finger tap from Beerus annihilated half a planet. Goku was able to survive it, despite being ambushed, until Beerus literally blew it away.

[Captain Morgan]

Tournament of Power recruitment Arc. When Goku got Freeza, and made it back to Earth, he and Freeza were ambushed by would be assassins. After dealing with most of them, one tossed Hakai energy (God of Destruction energy) at Freeza, whom was able to get it control of it. Freeza then tossed it at an unprepared Goku. This is the kind of energy where only a finger tap from Beerus annihilated half a planet. Goku was able to survive it, despite being ambushed, until Beerus literally blew it away.

Midway through a fight with assassins does not really strike me as being caught off guard. If they had opened with it, sure, but Goku was watching Freiza fight these guys for a minute there.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Midway through a fight with assassins does not really strike me as being caught off guard. If they had opened with it, sure, but Goku was watching Freiza fight these guys for a minute there.

Also, I'm pretty sure Freiza expected them to do that since he seemed to be planning on using that energy on Goku. Also, the only reason why Freiza was able to overcome the destruction energy was because he was in his Golden form. Goku was in base mode when Freiza used the energy on him and was losing to it until Beerus rocked up and just blew it out like a candle.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Midway through a fight with assassins does not really strike me as being caught off guard. If they had opened with it, sure, but Goku was watching Freiza fight these guys for a minute there.

That's not the best example either, since Hakai is kind of above their pay grade to a point anyway.

[Captain Morgan]

My understanding with Hakai was that it was less a traditional explosive blast of force and more of a matter erasing thing as well. I interpreted deflecting it as a matter of ki control rather than durability.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

My understanding with Hakai was that it was less a traditional explosive blast of force and more of a matter erasing thing as well. I interpreted deflecting it as a matter of ki control rather than durability.

Basically. It's generally a point and click, and seems to just burn through/erase a target and their Ki.

[big_adventure]

I'm struggling to think of an example of this.

They've been blindsided in a fight any number of times, but that's already in a pre-existing combat situation.

Where have they been completely taken off guard by a planet buster?

I'll have to look some things up.

But when Goku got lased by a tiny pinky ring, he was in the middle of a battle with the strongest opponent (mortal division) he'd ever faced. Even if he didn't see that shot coming, he was absolutely in combat mode.

It's really more SMvFL with a side of PIS.

There have also been explosions, sucker punches, the fire exploding from the hole frieza made in the ground on Namek, etc., things where suddenly someone who should be immune against a said level of harm... isn't... for plot reasons.

It's not limited to Dragonball: Yellowjacket Hank Pym, in his first "smack my bitch up" arc with Janet, somehow briefly KO'd Thor with a kick because he got big right as he was delivering it. "Surprise!!!!!!"... doesn't matter that much. Batman knocked the air out of Wonder Woman's lungs by kicking her in the tummy. Uhhhhhhh huuuuuuuuuuh.

[Captain Morgan]

I do recall Krillin being able to blast a hole in Vegeta because Vegeta wanted him too at one point.

[The MunchKING]

I do recall Krillin being able to blast a hole in Vegeta because Vegeta wanted him too at one point.

DBZA says that happened on Namek where they were fighting Freeza and Vegita was trying to get another one of those Sayin near-death power ups.

[Alan2099]

I'm really proud that this has continued on for six pages.

[choptop]

I'm really proud that this has continued on for six pages.

I hope it never ends.