DCU Movies

[thefinalguy]

Me: Raceswapping is uncreative and they should utilize original characters that have been there for decades.

You: You're just upset by the existence of non-white dudes.

How do you even come up with this stuff. You don't get to twist my words the way it suits you to try to manipulate the discourse just to have your little "gotcha" moment. It's pathetic. Neither do you get to make assumptions about my belief system solely based on me not caring about raceswapping. It's long past time for people like you to be taken to task for doing this appalling garbage.

If they wanted to use those characters.... they would.

And that's the issue; they refuse to. White Jim Gordon and Selina Kyle? We aren't getting an appearance from Signal and Jezebel Jet in return.

Other than that, I have no notes on the race swapping because it does not bother me, and many of the complaints are rooted in racism. And no, I'm not talking about YOU specifically.

[Rincewind]

Me: Raceswapping is uncreative and they should utilize original characters that have been there for decades.

You: You're just upset by the existence of non-white dudes.

How do you even come up with this stuff. You don't get to twist my words the way it suits you to try to manipulate the discourse just to have your little "gotcha" moment. It's pathetic. Neither do you get to make assumptions about my belief system solely based on me not caring about raceswapping. It's long past time for people like you to be taken to task for doing this appalling garbage.

And now you're twisting my words.

I never said you were upset at the existence of non white dudes. I said you were upset at the appearance of non white dudes onscreen. Part of the "raceswapping is uncreative" argument is that non white actors should not be cast for characters that were originally white.

You also continue to ignore the very basic fact that white dudes have and continue to be over represented in the media. When I pointed this out you responded "Though it's always amusing how casually dismissive people like you are when it comes to one specific group. But who cares, they're just some white people." You seem pretty quick to imply an anti white attitude coming from me with this quote.

[Johnny]

I never said you were upset at the existence of non white dudes. I said you were upset at the appearance of non white dudes onscreen. Part of the "raceswapping is uncreative" argument is that non white actors should not be cast for characters that were originally white.

No that's part of the argument you are trying to suggest I made when I never said a thing about who non-white actors should or should not be playing. My argument from the get-go was that raceswaping serves no real purpose in the long run and many original characters should not keep being neglected just because they may not have the same name recognition as other characters that are being constantly raceswapped. My main point was about the lack of effort on Hollywood's part and always taking the easy way out by "subverting expectations" instead of doing what creators did in the past and make sure to have original diverse characters precisely because of the overrepresentation of white people in entertainment media.

You also continue to ignore the very basic fact that white dudes have and continue to be over represented in the media. When I pointed this out you responded "Though it's always amusing how casually dismissive people like you are when it comes to one specific group. But who cares, they're just some white people." You seem pretty quick to imply an anti white attitude coming from me with this quote.

Your comment was "I don't think the movie would have been any better if they were played by some white people". You were both alleging that I implied the quality of The Batman would've been better without the raceswapping, which I never did, and you were being dismissive of that group in the same sentence. Then the kicker was calling me a snowflake for supposedly being threatened by more diversity which was as appalling of a claim as it gets. Even if we were to assume that I had misunderstood your initial remark about white people as being dismissive and you didn't actually mean it that way, you kept doubling down on me supposedly being upset about having more representation on screen when I said time and again what I thought the issue with raceswapping is. You don't get to make presumptions about my character just because we happen to disagree on how the entertainment industry treats fictional characters.

[Factor]

I don't mind race swapping but if the goal is diversity, I'd much rather see original POC characters getting a chance in the spotlight than just race swapping a famously white character.
Black Canary for me is a weird example, because they chose to have a white Helena Bertinelli (who is no longer white in the comics) and made Black Canary black. It would have been easier to just cast a POC actress for Helena to keep the diversity and have better synergy with the source material.
I don't mind at all that The Batman's Catwoman isn't white. Zoe Kravitz is phenomenal in the role and the character has a long history of being played by actresses of different races.

[Jokerz79]

Superman, Batman, & Flash to name a few have comic book cast that are traditionally as white as the Mayflower. Spider-Man Homecoming realized that a Queens High School in 1962 being all white wasn't weird but in 2017 would be extremely strange so they race swapped most of the supporting cast. In 1939 there wasn't a lot of Black Cops let alone Commissioners 2022 different story same for Newspaper Editors, so Jim Gordon and Perry White become POC to be represent the world of today vs the world of 1930's America.

In comic book characters there is a huge lopsidedness in White Heroes and White Supporting Cast Members vs POC Heroes and Supporting Cast so they occasional race swap. Again, if it doesn't change the character outside of appearance who cares? Should have Grant Guston and Ezra Miller dyed their hair blonde? Keanu Reeves Black Hair not Blonde and especially not a Brit yet no one is yelling about his casting. Why is skin color the only issue if it's a faithful representation people want?

[Sodam Yat]

I don't mind race swapping but if the goal is diversity, I'd much rather see original POC characters getting a chance in the spotlight than just race swapping a famously white character.
Black Canary for me is a weird example, because they chose to have a white Helena Bertinelli (who is no longer white in the comics) and made Black Canary black. It would have been easier to just cast a POC actress for Helena to keep the diversity and have better synergy with the source material.
I don't mind at all that The Batman's Catwoman isn't white. Zoe Kravitz is phenomenal in the role and the character has a long history of being played by actresses of different races.

I agree with this. I'll take original POC characters over race swapping any day. Race swapping seems lazy. And in fact, it really is. And it shows that DC doesn't have much effort to prioritize existing POC characters. There are great beautiful high quality existing POC characters. DC should put a much greater effort with those characters. When you rather race swap than to push original beautiful high quality POC characters, you're telling the fans that you don't have the time and effort into pushing existing minorities. In a way, it's kinda insulting. POC characters and the fans deserves way better than this. DC needs to do better.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Another one leaving DC and the superhero genre... who's next?

"On Rotten Tomatoes I just got my lowest critic score and my highest audience score on the same film ��*♂️ I wasn’t expecting a repeat of the first movie critically but I was still a little surprised because I think it’s a good film. Oh well.

As I’ve been saying for a while now I’m very eager to go back to horror (as well as trying some new things). After six years of Shazam I’m definitely done with superheroes for now.

Just to be clear, I don’t regret even for a second making the Shazam movies. I’ve learned so much and gotten to work with some truly amazing people. Will forever be grateful that I got to direct two of these! They’ve been very challenging but valuable experiences.

One thing I’ve really been looking forward to is disconnecting from the superhero discourse online. A lot of that stresses me out so much and it will be nice not having to think about that anymore."

https://twitter.com/ponysmasher/stat...56216226619392

[Vordan]

Wan’s movie still has to come out but he seems done with capeshit too.

[Last Son of Krypton]

The “way” in which they were made? Dude, the content of the scene is what’s important. And the content, as it stands now, is essentially creating a thru-line from Shazam into the Gunn DCU, using characters he created and name dropping a character we know Gunn is currently writing an HBO Max streaming show for. Again, given that, Gunn could have cut it out. He didn’t.

As for the possible follow-up? Maybe Levi will then show up in that very show that James Gunn is currently writing if Waller is indeed spoilers:

trying to assemble a new JSA

end of spoilers

Watching Shazam! 2, I had for the whole time the same feeling I had watching Dark Phoneix and New Mutants, I don't expect any follow up over the Waller show especially for a comedic post credit scene filmed ages ago.

Wan’s movie still has to come out but he seems done with capeshit too.

In an interview, Sandberg said he is going to work again with Wan and Hamada. A reunion, lol.

Edit: Here: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...an-1235355894/

[Maestro 216]

Wan’s movie still has to come out but he seems done with capeshit too.

I think WB's corprate structure combined with the poor box office is too much for David. Wan might be burned out if the test results of Aquaman 2 are indication worthy.

[Robotman]

Maybe people are finally tired of the “Joss Whedon superheroes”. The overly quippy wacky characters and dialogue that kind of became the voice of Marvel heroes after Avengers. Marvel movies moved away from that more after Age of Ultron but it still rears it’s ugly head now and then.

Despite some negative fan and critical responses, Thor Love and Thunder still made a lot of money. Because MARVEL! But maybe seeing Zachary Levi in his muscle suit hamming it up in the trailers turned the average moviegoer off.

Another one leaving DC and the superhero genre... who's next?

"On Rotten Tomatoes I just got my lowest critic score and my highest audience score on the same film ��*♂️ I wasn’t expecting a repeat of the first movie critically but I was still a little surprised because I think it’s a good film. Oh well.

As I’ve been saying for a while now I’m very eager to go back to horror (as well as trying some new things). After six years of Shazam I’m definitely done with superheroes for now.

Just to be clear, I don’t regret even for a second making the Shazam movies. I’ve learned so much and gotten to work with some truly amazing people. Will forever be grateful that I got to direct two of these! They’ve been very challenging but valuable experiences.

One thing I’ve really been looking forward to is disconnecting from the superhero discourse online. A lot of that stresses me out so much and it will be nice not having to think about that anymore."

https://twitter.com/ponysmasher/stat...56216226619392

I don’t blame him at all for wanted to get away from all the online insanity surrounding superhero fandom and critical responses.

Toxic fan culture was always kind of this dark corner of the overall fan experience. With superheroes becoming so mainstream it’s unfortunately become the norm.

[Frontier]

Maybe people are finally tired of the “Joss Whedon superheroes”. The overly quippy wacky characters and dialogue that kind of became the voice of Marvel heroes after Avengers. Marvel movies moved away from that more after Age of Ultron but it still rears it’s ugly head now and then.

Despite some negative fan and critical responses, Thor Love and Thunder still made a lot of money. Because MARVEL! But maybe seeing Zachary Levi in his muscle suit hamming it up in the trailers turned the average moviegoer off.

I do feel like a consistent criticism of Superhero movies as of late is the incessant jokes and quips. That was one of the main sticking points in LaT and I even recall criticisms that there wasn't much tension in Quantumania because of the jokes.

Also Marvel saw what happened when they tried to make a "serious" film and it failed (Cough)Eternals(Cough).

[Johnny]

Also Marvel saw what happened when they tried to make a "serious" film and it failed (Cough)Eternals(Cough).

I still regret that tbh. If Eternals didn't fail, it would've likely made them stray from their usual formula a bit. Then again Ant-Man 3 is "funny" and that performed below expectations as well.

[Tomkatie]

I wouldn't mind future MCU movies took a leaf out of Shang-Chi's first 90% of runtime (before the CGI dragon fight)

[Frontier]

I wouldn't mind future MCU movies took a leaf out of Shang-Chi's first 90% of runtime (before the CGI dragon fight)

Honestly I think the first Black Panther film hit a tonal sweet spot.