Letter Pages in the DoX era

[spirit2011]

I noticed you remember only things that fit with your narrative. You conveniently don't remember seeing Jean fans harassing writers (well, be sure that some writers remember being harassed. Ask Greg Pak)

I really never saw any Jean fan being disrecpectiful. Unless is disrespectiful ask to write a better Jean grey. I even went throught the mentions and didn't found anything like that.
Pak was15 years ago

[anyajenkins]

It's not like Hickman isn't screwing over Jean, he did that karen poll and asked people to vote against her.

What Karen poll? ‘Karen’ seems to be a popular word around here recently...

[spirit2011]

What Karen poll? ‘Karen’ seems to be a popular word around here recently...

karen: a woman that is racists and calls cops on black men/women

[anyajenkins]

I figured that one out, lol. What Karen poll were you talking about?

[Snoop Dogg]

I figured that one out, lol. What Karen poll were you talking about?

hickman made a twitter shitpost about a poll of who is a karen and jean was an option and fans cried in defense of their cartoon character so he deleted it and this is definitely still a thread about modern letters pages

[spirit2011]

hickman made a twitter shitpost about a poll of who is a karen and jean was an option and fans cried in defense of their cartoon character so he deleted it and this is definitely still a thread about modern letters pages

he deleted because Emma was winning over Jean

[anyajenkins]

Huh, so literally a Karen poll...alright then...

So letter pages, I like them, but they have been de facto replaced by twitter, forums, etc...

[salarta]

Hickman deleted his Twitter account, apparently. I was going to see what characters he had on the "Karen" poll after reading this thread.

Anyway, I have some comments.

Harassment is obviously bad. That's kind of a given. Many posts in this thread have already said harassment shouldn't be directed at Hickman. One thing I haven't seen said, and so I will add, is that harassment also shouldn't be directed at people who say things that are inconvenient for Hickman or current/future plans Marvel has for the X-Men franchise. If excuses can be made to justify harassment in defense of Hickman, then those same excuses can be made to justify harassment of him.

I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of acting in such a way. But I do distinctly remember certain things said and done during HoX/PoX, and those things are a decent chunk (but not all) of why I've been against HoX/PoX/DoX. I'm not going to give further details, and I'm sorry if anyone wanted them, but I don't think giving those details will lead to anything good. I think the message itself should be enough.

Next. If a writer receives harassment from a character's fans and takes it out on the character, I'd have to say that person is a terrible writer. I don't care how eloquently they can string together words or construct elaborate worlds or do great things with characters they like. Each character is a wealth of potential. That character means something to someone. I've seen fans of characters talk about how their faves provide immense emotional support during difficult periods in their lives. People aren't fans of Superman just cause he can punch boulders. They're fans of what he represents. Characters can be a strong source of inspiration in so many ways. If a writer lets harassment blind them to that worth, then they've fundamentally failed to understand the power of their craft.

Maybe the writer tries (and I mean really tries) to do their best but isn't able. Maybe the writer is afraid of treating a character poorly, and shrinks away from the risk. As a general rule, that's fine. But if the writer goes out of their way to treat a character horribly, then they've failed.

But. If a character had a pivotal role in an event, or has meaningful history with the franchise, then I think it's flat out wrong to disregard that past in cases where it should matter regardless of circumstances.

Finally, I'm getting back to the actual original point of this thread: letter pages, and Marvel taking criticism.

Marvel is very much the same as most companies I've observed that deal with creative IPs. They don't like to admit when they make mistakes. They want people to think everything they do is perfect, that they have no need for improvement because how do you improve on perfection? Companies that behave in this way believe that to admit they've made mistakes, or worse try to correct those mistakes, will kill confidence in the product and drive customers away. On the ground level of it, people in positions of power personally feel that admitting they made a mistake is a way of admitting they're inept at their jobs and should be fired in place of someone who's more perfect than they are.

It's wrong, of course, because human nature and society is all about improvement. But it's how they think.

The massive problem with this approach is, writers and editors end up relying on echo chambers more than honest criticism. They'll go to close acquaintances who already think the way they think about characters, or events, or concepts. They'll puff their own egos up with how everyone who talks directly to them, or who they surround themselves with, always speaks highly of the decisions they make and the way they see the world. Doesn't really matter how bad those views or decisions are, they end up being great once run through the filter. Rome's burning but all Nero hears about is how great he is at fiddling. I've seen people from Marvel try to justify pre-existing biases with "nobody that talks to me has said differently" without showing they've made any effort to look deeper for themselves.

Which in turn, I think demonstrates that a properly handled letters page that includes criticism can be very beneficial. It might not capture all possible views. I assume most views represented would be people actually reading X-Men books, and there's a sizable segment of people who may be fans but aren't reading the books cause they don't like where they're going. It's still better than nothing.

A caveat I would add is someone that doesn't have a personal stake in the book selecting letters to be answered. This has at least two benefits. First, it doesn't allow a writer/editor to merely cherry-pick the letters that make them look great while ignoring ones with meaningful critique. Second, it protects the writer/editor from having to see harassment that got submitted as a letter.

That wraps up my incredibly long post that nobody's going to read. I'm off to other things now!

[spirit2011]

Hickman deleted his Twitter account, apparently. I was going to see what characters he had on the "Karen" poll after reading this thread.
!

it was Emma, Jean and Kitty. He had already deleted the poll much before deleting his own twitter

[whitecrown]

Considering I see Brazilian fans of Jean Grey calling Hickman (as a person) garbage or idiots on his replies constantly, I see no reason for him to ever want to address fans in general. And I'm not even being paranoid, I'm talking people with Jean avatars and "Jean grey fan" or stuff on their names. Can't imagine what the other writers have to read whenever they don't please a certain group. Giving this kind of fan another platform is stupid.

Sounds like my kind of people. I've always loved Brazilian fans because they're so passionate about their fandoms.

[Snoop Dogg]

hickman deleted his twitter solely because of his kid

[salarta]

it was Emma, Jean and Kitty. He had already deleted the poll much before deleting his own twitter

Thanks. On the one hand, I can see something like that being fine as a joke. On the other, Marvel doesn't have a very good track record in how they treat female characters. I know dedicated fans speak highly of a few highlight moments or a few PR pushes, but how Marvel does things in the everyday and with more obscure characters tells a very different story.

I also wonder if Hickman had a similar poll about male characters. I'm not saying he didn't. I'm saying I wonder. Cause if he never had a similar poll, it would raise a lot of questions as to why this but not that.

Good, Hickman sounds like a troll. Must have realized people won't take his petty antics anymore. There's a reason there isn't a letters page for his comics and that's because outside of a few brainwashed people, everyone is able to recognize that his run is horrible and should be retconned at once. I know exactly how Claremont feels when he heard about this garbage seeing print.

Again, harassment isn't fine (and if that's not what you're implying then I apologize; I can see it being read that way and would rather cover the bases than not). I do hope, though, that part of the reason for deleting his Twitter account was realizing a need to learn and reflect - rather than simply cutting off a communication line because it's easier.

I wouldn't say "everyone" on what you said. The current work obviously has its fans, and from what I've seen apparently appealed to many people who've been around a long time. Many of those fans are extremely "into" it. But, I do think more and more people are looking past the PR and at the work itself, especially with COVID putting the brakes on Marvel's hype train, and they don't really like what they see with the hype off.

[Snoop Dogg]

no his last tweet was his kid saying he wanted a social media account, hickman showing through studies how social media is linked to anxiety and depression, his kid asking why he has one then, hickman saying well played, and then he actually deleted the account to escape the pinch

that's literally it

[Dipter]

Honestly, any time somebody decides to delete their twitter account my response is always “good for them.” It’s a hellish site where the idiots greatly outnumber the reasonable people, especially when it comes to fandoms. It’s a wonder why anybody bothers with that sort of stuff. It can be fun for a little while to troll those type of obsessive fans that take everything too seriously, but even that gets tiring.

[franckd]

If "everyone" hates Hickman, why are they still buying his stuff

Agree. HoX and PoX had great sales, and on this board, fans were really excited.

Honestly, any time somebody decides to delete their twitter account my response is always “good for them.” It’s a hellish site where the idiots greatly outnumber the reasonable people, especially when it comes to fandoms. It’s a wonder why anybody bothers with that sort of stuff. It can be fun for a little while to troll those type of obsessive fans that take everything too seriously, but even that gets tiring.

You're right. I have a twitter account, I use it sometimes, but I don't spend too much time on it.
It's soul consuming.