The All-Purpose, Hollywood Sexual Accusation Thread

[ed2962]

Catherine Deneuve's take on #MeToo.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ha...ed-men-n836361

It's odd, she seems to be conflating courtship with coercion. And while I understand the concern over not wanting to see the whole thing turn into a witch-hunt, the idea that the movement is anti-men is disappointing.

[TheInvisibleMan]

but its not, at all

[WontonGirl]

I don't think it's anti-Men but I do notice that the movement is not as vocal about Male victims. The Male victims pretty much get attention because of who they are OR because THEY themselves are talking about it. Whether they are Gay or Straight.

[Jim Kelly]

When this thing first started to snowball, it seemed to be about men and women of all colours exploiting other men and women of all colours. Now, the rhetoric seems to be mainly framing it as white men exploiting women of all colours.

[TheInvisibleMan]

I don't think it's anti-Men but I do notice that the movement is not as vocal about Male victims. The Male victims pretty much get attention because of who they are OR because THEY themselves are talking about it. Whether they are Gay or Straight.

considering the power structure lends itself to men preying on women, thats where the focus is

terry crews (one of the male victims who did speak up) is being roundly ostracized by a lot of hollywood and this movement is behind him

but lets not pretend its the same thing, its like comparing a forest fire to a kitchen fire, yes both are bad but one has a more definite impact

[TheInvisibleMan]

When this thing first started to snowball, it seemed to be about men and women of all colours exploiting other men and women of all colours. Now, the rhetoric seems to be mainly framing it as white men exploiting women of all colours.

because it is largely WHITE MEN who are the perpetrators here

they are the studio heads, they are the network execs, they are the one sitting in positions of power and have endeavored to keep it that way

its tough enough for black and brown folks to get in front of the camera, much less behind it

[titanfan]

Catherine Deneuve's take on #MeToo.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ha...ed-men-n836361

It's odd, she seems to be conflating courtship with coercion. And while I understand the concern over not wanting to see the whole thing turn into a witch-hunt, the idea that the movement is anti-men is disappointing.

If you scour the internet, twitter, there is a lot of noise. And I do feel there are a lot of cases of people complaining about:
- Unwanted (but not necessarily inappropriate) advances as sexual harassment.
- Cases of Sexual Harassment which are definitely harassment, but more of a "Send this person to training or educate them" and not "Get them fired" type of cases.

There are different levels of harassment and assault, and if you're just a random person reading a threat on reddit or twitter, it can definitely sound very "witch hunt"-like. That said, I think the mainstream media has been doing a pretty good job of going after the "big cases", and so has this thread.

[Cyke]

because it is largely WHITE MEN who are the perpetrators here

they are the studio heads, they are the network execs, they are the one sitting in positions of power and have endeavored to keep it that way

its tough enough for black and brown folks to get in front of the camera, much less behind it

Yeah, agreed. Much of the discussion had been about men in power as perpetrators. But the vast majority of men in power -- regardless of the topic of sex harrassment -- are indeed white men. They're the primary force behind the creation of laws, major corporations, and the concentration of wealth. So while, in a male-dominated society, most perpetrators of abuse are men, the demographics tighten up when you look at a more specific group. And in this case, it's powerful men.

Sure, there'll be a Black man accused like John Singleton, but that's one out of, like, a dozen otherwise innocent black directors. Accuse Woody Allen, and, as we've seen, a dozen other white directors pop up as the accused as well. And that's the numbers game.

But then the other thing, too, is just based on the structure, who are the black and brown directors learning from? Primarily white directors, because they're the predecessors. Sylvester Stallone gave advice Ryan Coogler during Creed just because Stallone had that experience. Spike Lee got pointers from Spielberg and Lucas and is pretty close to Scorcese to this day (imagine all that!). Nothing wrong with that per se, but that's just how time and numbers go. But then imagine a young Black director being taken under the wing of, say, Brett Ratner, and then that rookie starts to learn -- maybe even adopt -- some of his behavior because he's the rookie's idol. That's when power starts to trickle down in a negative.

[GozertheGozarian]

Stan Lee?

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/01...busing-nurses/

Sourced to Daily Mail, the U.K.'s equivalent of the National Enquirer or Weekly World News.

[TheInvisibleMan]

Yeah, agreed. Much of the discussion had been about men in power as perpetrators. But the vast majority of men in power -- regardless of the topic of sex harrassment -- are indeed white men. They're the primary force behind the creation of laws, major corporations, and the concentration of wealth. So while, in a male-dominated society, most perpetrators of abuse are men, the demographics tighten up when you look at a more specific group. And in this case, it's powerful men.

Sure, there'll be a Black man accused like John Singleton, but that's one out of, like, a dozen otherwise innocent black directors. Accuse Woody Allen, and, as we've seen, a dozen other white directors pop up as the accused as well. And that's the numbers game.

But then the other thing, too, is just based on the structure, who are the black and brown directors learning from? Primarily white directors, because they're the predecessors. Sylvester Stallone gave advice Ryan Coogler during Creed just because Stallone had that experience. Spike Lee got pointers from Spielberg and Lucas and is pretty close to Scorcese to this day (imagine all that!). Nothing wrong with that per se, but that's just how time and numbers go. But then imagine a young Black director being taken under the wing of, say, Brett Ratner, and then that rookie starts to learn -- maybe even adopt -- some of his behavior because he's the rookie's idol. That's when power starts to trickle down in a negative.

and while Bill Cosby is a horrible person who deserves to burn in hell, his white bosses at NBC were the ones getting rich off The Cosby Show while keeping his victims quiet

its a gross ladder

[TheInvisibleMan]

If you scour the internet, twitter, there is a lot of noise. And I do feel there are a lot of cases of people complaining about:
- Unwanted (but not necessarily inappropriate) advances as sexual harassment.
- Cases of Sexual Harassment which are definitely harassment, but more of a "Send this person to training or educate them" and not "Get them fired" type of cases.

There are different levels of harassment and assault, and if you're just a random person reading a threat on reddit or twitter, it can definitely sound very "witch hunt"-like. That said, I think the mainstream media has been doing a pretty good job of going after the "big cases", and so has this thread.

I started learning about sexual harassment as a teenager (im 38 and this became a thing in the late 80s/early 90s), people today in the workplace should know waaaay before they even step foot in an office what is and what is not appropriate

[Jim Kelly]

because it is largely WHITE MEN who are the perpetrators here

Yes, here. Here if you want here to be Hollywood and white men in power exploiting women who come to Hollywood looking for success and fame. And that's maybe what this thread is about. But I was thinking of the world and everyone in it. I don't believe it helps if the converssation is confined to this one small segment in this one small area. It makes it easier for people to stick their head in the sand and just say that's Hollywood for you.

It helps if we understand that this is happening to everyone in the world all the time and many of us can relate it to our personal experiences. But when you say all those other experiences are not the point of the conversation then it makes us feel excluded, like we don't exist in this debate. It's just the famous and the powerful that exist. Which is itself an abusive pattern of thought.

It's better to recognize all the men and women that don't neatly fit the narrative, if you want to appeal to everyone's collective sympathies. I think that's why the stories about Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and Allison Mack woke people. They weren't who we thought they were. Harvey Weinstein was.

[TheInvisibleMan]

Yes, here. Here if you want here to be Hollywood and white men in power exploiting women who come to Hollywood looking for success and fame. And that's maybe what this thread is about. But I was thinking of the world and everyone in it. I don't believe it helps if the converssation is confined to this one small segment in this one small area. It makes it easier for people to stick their head in the sand and just say that's Hollywood for you.

It helps if we understand that this is happening to everyone in the world all the time and many of us can relate it to our personal experiences. But when you say all those other experiences are not the point of the conversation then it makes us feel excluded, like we don't exist in this debate. It's just the famous and the powerful that exist. Which is itself an abusive pattern of thought.

It's better to recognize all the men and women that don't neatly fit the narrative, if you want to appeal to everyone's collective sympathies. I think that's why the stories about Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and Allison Mack woke people. They weren't who we thought they were. Harvey Weinstein was.

and that's an important conversation to have, its the prime reason we shouldn't pedestal celebrities

because they are humans too, and humans are trash

we are awful to each other when given the opportunity

and Im not trying to limit any conversation, what I am trying to say is that sexual harrassment and assault is a wide ranging problem with various victims and perpetrators, but there is nothing hostile or bad about pointing out that in specific areas of this horrible situation, WHITE MEN are the ones doing the horrid s**t by a large margin

Im a victim myself, I was assaulted when I saw in the USN - I was 20 at the time, and the person who assaulted me basically threatened me and if I didnt go along, life would become very difficult, and its an awful feeling that I am only NOW dealing with

[Da Boat]

I don't disagree with Catherine Deneuve there.

While there are agressions that have taken places for a long time, it sort of feel like some sort of frenzy or glee for some parties to shame men. This has been going on for a while in television in particular. And sometime on shows like the View and so forth, it's like they are ready to hang men on a daily basis. And their audience screams like crazy for it.

And it's interesting that the pushback come from Europe as to me the men hatred element has mainly been American-based. Maybe it's going back to the old New England/pilgrim-based puritanism.

[ed2962]

I don't disagree with Catherine Deneuve there.

While there are agressions that have taken places for a long time, it sort of feel like some sort of frenzy or glee for some parties to shame men. This has been going on for a while in television in particular. And sometime on shows like the View and so forth, it's like they are ready to hang men on a daily basis. And their audience screams like crazy for it.

And it's interesting that the pushback come from Europe as to me the men hatred element has mainly been American-based. Maybe it's going back to the old New England/pilgrim-based puritanism.

I don't think that The View is particularly anti-male. And while it's probably inevitable that there'll be people taking advantage or trying to cash in on the MeToo movement, speaking out about sexual harassment isn't the same as man-bashing. There's a big difference between stealing a kiss or being persistent with a girl playing hard to get and locking a door with a co-worker and making them watch you masterbate.