All-New Marvel is Starting to make me All-Pissed

[dragonmp93]

The exception proves the rule. With that said it's not like Fury Sr. and Jr are the exact same person.

In the Ultimate Universe, yes; and in the Main Universe, Sr. is now the Watcher; so the Fury that now is around is Jr.

[SlimeBeherit]

In the Ultimate Universe, yes; and in the Main Universe, Sr. is now the Watcher; so the Fury that now is around is Jr.

Yup, I agree that Nick Fury Jr. is the closest it's gotten to just straight up replacing another person, but even so,that's not exactly the case. It was pretty cool to see Nick "The Unseen" Fury in that recent Silver Surfer comic though.

[White_Panther]

It's really neither.

It could have sort of been both if you had said people advocating for diversity wanted the fans of the replaced characters to be empathetic towards those that wanted diversity, but then showed a lack of empathy towards the fans of the characters getting replaced, but instead you went with people wanting instant fame for minority characters and telling people to wait for the return of the original characters. And that is neither hypocritical or ironic.

Way i see it, when someone cries on the net for more diversity and legacy heroes and then bashes someone else because "he has to stop bitching", he/she's an hypocrite.

I fear you guys are too deep in it to see the hypocrisy and double standards of such behavior.

[White_Panther]

HYPOCRISY is complaining you can't read about Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Logan, Original Thor, X-Men & a book with a straight white male in the lead. When all of them have books being published.


IRONY is a guy who has not been reading Marvel for 20 years complaining about minority legacies when he left Marvel and no one was replaced by one. Peter got replaced by a white guy in 1990s.


IRONY is claiming minority success is deemed by replacing white guys.

Marvel's top selling minority is Black Panther. 6 volumes, a cartoon mini series & movie.

Blade-3 movies and 2 tv shows

Static-a tv show and 3 action figures and DC's (published wise) longest running black male solo

Cyborg-3 possible movie roles, 3 tv series roles and various appearances in trades.

Spawn 1 movie and 2 tv shows

Luke Cage-1 tv series and 3 series volumes

Master of Kung-longest running Asian lead comic among the big 2.

Vixen has a solo tv series

And Storm, Bishop, Falcon, Eli Bradley, Spectrum, Blue Marvel, Night Trasher, Mosaic, America Chavez, Jubliee, Synch, Monet, Sunspot, Cloak, Alex Wilder, Niko, Mettle, Hazard, Prodigy, Moon Girl, JJ Thunder, Luke Fox, Rage, Surge, Rene Montoya, Black Lightning, Malcolm Dragon, Xero, Rocket Racer, Prowler, Flint, Duke Thomas and so many others-say hi.

No they don't, cap's a nazi, logan is still dead (oml ain't the original wolverine), hulk is dead, Thor's comic is still a long way ahead and, right now, there's only shethor, and the x-men are pretty much unrecognizable. The only one in that list i can give a pass is spider-man, but then again he now needs the adjective amazing, because miles morales is pushed by bmb as "the only spider-man". And before you throw the race/sex/orientation card at me, you should probably ask yourself "has anyone brought race/sex/orientation to the table as a critique?"

Who is the guy in your example?

Yeah an none of the comics you listed lasted long, apart for spawn, even falcon was a bust before he became captain america, give him the shield and... instant fame (just add water).

And speaking of spawn, anyone remember the outrage when he was swapped with a white dude? Was it ironic or hypocritical?

[ed2962]

No they don't, cap's a nazi, logan is still dead (oml ain't the original wolverine), hulk is dead, Thor's comic is still a long way ahead and, right now, there's only shethor, and the x-men are pretty much unrecognizable. The only one in that list i can give a pass is spider-man, but then again he now needs the adjective amazing, because miles morales is pushed by bmb as "the only spider-man". And before you throw the race/sex/orientation card at me, you should probably ask yourself "has anyone brought race/sex/orientation to the table as a critique?"

Who is the guy in your example?

Yeah an none of the comics you listed lasted long, apart for spawn, even falcon was a bust before he became captain america, give him the shield and... instant fame (just add water).

And speaking of spawn, anyone remember the outrage when he was swapped with a white dude? Was it ironic or hypocritical?

Cap's not really a Nazi...I don't why some fans keep thinking this is a real thing. Logan is still around and even if you don't count OML as the "real" Wolverine, he's eventually coming back to his traditional self. Bruce has been separated from the Hulk before and you can believe that he'll be back from the dead just like Steve, Peter, Thor, etc. Peter will always be [I]the[/I Spiderman even BMB knows this.


There really wasn't all that much outrage when Spawn was replaced, but even if it was bigger, it wouldn't have been neither ironic nor hypocritical

[dragonmp93]

Cap's not really a Nazi...I don't why some fans keep thinking this is a real thing. Logan is still around and even if you don't count OML as the "real" Wolverine, he's eventually coming back to his traditional self. Bruce has been separated from the Hulk before and you can believe that he'll be back from the dead just like Steve, Peter, Thor, etc. Peter will always be [I]the[/I Spiderman even BMB knows this.


There really wasn't all that much outrage when Spawn was replaced, but even if it was bigger, it wouldn't have been neither ironic nor hypocritical

Sure, because Hydra are totally not Nazis.
Anyways, according to Breevort, Cyclops is the one that is Hitler.

[JKtheMac]

Sure, because Hydra are totally not Nazis.
Anyways, according to Breevort, Cyclops is the one that is Hitler.

You realise that one of the advantages of using analogy in genre fiction is because they are flexible and mutable? Anyone that has read an X-Men comic from more than one era would know this, so I assume you get that.

Hydra has occasionally been an analog for Nazi, but it has also been many different things in multiple stories. One potential problem with older comic characters is their connection to the Second World War. This tends to make them static and irrelevant in modern times. Analogy acts as an antidote to this, it allows Hydra to be recast in the light of current concerns. So right now Hydra is being used to draw attention to xenophobia and white supremacist manipulation. Yes these issues were prevalent in 1930s Germany at the formation of the Nazi party and the current story mirrors this, but it is not making a direct comparison and is shifting the analogy to modern political concerns like immigration control. If they kept too close to the Hydra = Nazi analogy they wouldn't be able to make these points.

[ed2962]

Sure, because Hydra are totally not Nazis.
Anyways, according to Breevort, Cyclops is the one that is Hitler.

My point was it's a silly plot twist that's not meant to last forever. It's premise that's been done a hundred times. You might as well be mad that Cap "died".

[skyvolt2000]

Yeah an none of the comics you listed lasted long, apart for spawn, even falcon was a bust before he became captain america, give him the shield and... instant fame (just add water).

Static had 44 issues in volume one

Luke Cage had 50 and then 75 with Iron Fist & another 20

Black Panther has 62 & 44 during his 11 year run

New Mutants went 100

Generation X 75

Avenger Academy 33

New X-Men 45

New Warriors had 75 in volume one.

A collection of original characters of color on various team books.

And before you throw the race/sex/orientation card at me, you should probably ask yourself "has anyone brought race/sex/orientation to the table as a critique?"

I did not bring it to the table.

From the outside looking in-it's SUSPECT that the collection of characters being trashed and bashed in the collection of complaint threads are non white straight males.

It is SUSPECT that Peter & Steve got replaced by white guys and nobody went nuts-yet Peter gets a little black brother and Falcon take over-we got an issue.

It is SUSPECT to see folks saying their reading enjoyment is being hindered by books they are NOT reading. Moon Girl, Spider Gwen nor Ms Marvel are at the comic book store stealing your favorite books.

It is SUSPECT to see folks claim there is no Steve Rogers book because of Falcon yet there is a Steve Rogers book being published. The TITLE says STEVE ROGERS. Falcon has no control over what that book is about even if he gave Steve his shield-that story does not change that Nazi story line.

Theses threads are opening the door for race/sex/orientation cards to be tossed. It is one thing for me to have a comment IF I read those books.

It's another if I have not or have not been reading Marvel for 20-30 years and leading the complaint charge.

Have an issue take it up with the folks in charge.

Because removing the "offensive" books will not story the X-Men being dumped on nor rich Peter Parker nor Hail Hydra Steve nor bring back Bruce Banner.

[dragonmp93]

You realise that one of the advantages of using analogy in genre fiction is because they are flexible and mutable? Anyone that has read an X-Men comic from more than one era would know this, so I assume you get that.

Hydra has occasionally been an analog for Nazi, but it has also been many different things in multiple stories. One potential problem with older comic characters is their connection to the Second World War. This tends to make them static and irrelevant in modern times. Analogy acts as an antidote to this, it allows Hydra to be recast in the light of current concerns. So right now Hydra is being used to draw attention to xenophobia and white supremacist manipulation. Yes these issues were prevalent in 1930s Germany at the formation of the Nazi party and the current story mirrors this, but it is not making a direct comparison and is shifting the analogy to modern political concerns like immigration control. If they kept too close to the Hydra = Nazi analogy they wouldn't be able to make these points.

Well, if he sides with the Inhumans, then that would make Hydra = Nazis.

[JKtheMac]

My point was it's a silly plot twist that's not meant to last forever. It's premise that's been done a hundred times. You might as well be mad that Cap "died".

Disenfranchised fan bemoans lack of originality for rhetorical effect at the same time as decrying change. You are just having an emotional reaction to the direction of a comic line, nothing more. That change began three to four years ago and has made Marvel a lot of cash, so they are not going to start backing off now.

[easywolf32]

Hey I am new to this forum, thanks for reading my post! Anyway I have been a big Marvel fan all my life and have read 1000s of comics and there has been many thinks that I have loved and also not loved. However this new Universe Marvel has done a great job of screwing up IMO has successfully made my monthly subscription price go down. Now hear me out. I am not against blacks, girls, LGBTQ or any of the minorities but I am against them changing many of the most popular characters just so they can look more tolerant or perhaps so it doesn't seem they are racist or whatever they could possibly have used to justify their awful decision making. If they want to make a more diversified cast then by all means go ahead! But leave the main names out of it (i.e. Hulk, Wolverine, Iron man, Thor..) I mean it completely ruins those heroes for me and I know I am not alone. My fellow comic readers that I talk to almost all agree with me that Marvel is heading in the wrong direction. I Absolutely love the new Ultimates comic and that has 3 girls and a black guy with one of the girls being a lesbian so why cant they do more like that. But no, lets change 4 of the arguably top 10 most popular heroes completely. Sorry I am ranting but I just wanted to see what others are saying about this outside my friend circle. Please let me know what you think! As for now I am only Subscribed to all the Star Wars Comics, Moon Knight and Punisher from Marvel and have dropped all my other titles, looks like I might pick up some more DC.

Exactly what he/she said. Thank God for Star Wars comics, but after seeing Episode 7 I'm afraid it might spread here too though. Hopefully they right that ship before it becomes as bad and dumb as in the Marvel comics industry.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Exactly what he/she said. Thank God for Star Wars comics, but after seeing Episode 7 I'm afraid it might spread here too though. Hopefully they right that ship before it becomes as bad and dumb as in the Marvel comics industry.

Pretty sure they'll make the Star Wars more whiter again just for you.

[Atlanta96]

Pretty sure they'll make the Star Wars more whiter again just for you.

Lando Calrissian, Poe Damaron, Princess Leia, yeah Star Wars comics are all white and male aren't they?

[Galerion]

Pretty sure they'll make the Star Wars more whiter again just for you.

Also get rid of that pesky female lead while we are at it. Better to have more manpain ala Episode I-III