Zack Snyder on his critics: "You're living in an f-ing dreamworld!"

[JAK]

I'm not even trying for the Halloween stuff this year. The new base items are pretty great....who knows, maybe an alt has some leftover marks from last year. Definitely not playing the content though. All I'm doing is knocking out some of the Metal DLC so I can get the Mr. Terrific t-spheres. Might start playing some again when the christmas event starts, or maybe Metal part 2, if the rewards are good.

Definitely. I'd say jump on the Christmas stuff, just because last year's stuff is what I use for my new Fortress look.

[GreatKungLao]

The movies sucked.

People don't like them because they sucked.

User scores for MoS and BvS are higher than critics ones. Your statement is false.

Screenshot_20191027-113601.jpg

Screenshot_20191027-114154.jpg

Positive rating percentage is above 50%, which probably means majority liked it, right?

A lot of people are appreciative of Zack Snyder's work to the point they gratitude him with video messages, like this one prior to Justice League:

[GreatKungLao]

“Make one person your world Clark”
*Lois dies*
*Superman goes full Injustice*
Wow who could’ve seen that one coming? Pa and Ma Kent’s moral lessons suck.

You probably missed the part where Zack Snyder explained that her death isn't what makes him go evil, but Anti-Life Equation does, her death just made him more vulnerable for Equation to work. There is a difference between Injustass and that.

Plus I think you missed the point of that conversation. Pa Kent explained him that every action has consequences and even good ones could lead to something unfortunate, like him later deciding to save the world at the cost of his own life. "She gave me faith that there is good in this world" was more of a saying that this world is worth living for even if there is only one good person that represents its goodness to you personally. Like the world is crap, BUT the good that there is out there is worth trying for.

[GreatKungLao]

And one other thing... how do we know this is exactly Snyder's vision? How much input did Nolan and WB have at the start? We know WB meddled most of the way through, and most likely Batman was their idea, not his (regardless of what he says, things he said before don't show that to be his idea, or at least not that early).

Also... Red Son is crap? As they say, one learns something new every day.

Nolan personally picked Zack for Superman reboot with Man of Steel when WB approached him after Dark Knight success and then, according to interviews, Nolan kept executives far away from Snyder so that his vision had as less of interference as possible. Who knows how it was with BvS, but I tend to believe that even if some things were demanded by studio, he did his best to create something of his own out of what was demanded.

I'm reading Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Official Movie Magazine and Zack Snyder's perception of superheroes is really interesting and unique to me.

These are my favorite insights







P.S. I don't like Red Son for three major reasons:
1. How it implies Kal grows up to be a lesser Superman unless he lands in USA.
2. Lois married to Luthor.
3. The ending. That God damned ending.

[Superbat]

User scores for MoS and BvS are higher than critics ones. Your statement is false.

Screenshot_20191027-113601.jpg

Screenshot_20191027-114154.jpg

Positive rating percentage is above 50%, which probably means majority liked it, right?

A lot of people are appreciative of Zack Snyder's work to the point they gratitude him with video messages, like this one prior to Justice League:

User ratings are unreliable and compared to the the number of people that watched both movies that number of user ratings is an insignificant speck.

Only 12 people appeared on-screen and the rest were internet comments.

[Superbat]

This is pure cringe btw.

[Crabble]

I think MoS, BvS, and JL will still be considered movies that most fans will disagree with in the future as they do now.

[JAK]

Nolan personally picked Zack for Superman reboot with Man of Steel when WB approached him after Dark Knight success and then, according to interviews, Nolan kept executives far away from Snyder so that his vision had as less of interference as possible. Who knows how it was with BvS, but I tend to believe that even if some things were demanded by studio, he did his best to create something of his own out of what was demanded.

I'm reading Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Official Movie Magazine and Zack Snyder's perception of superheroes is really interesting and unique to me.

These are my favorite insights

Those are interesting - thanks for sharing those! Also interesting about Nolan keeping Snyder away from execs.. though it's still very likely that WB (or perhaps Nolan) gave Snyder (directly or indirectly) at least the direction to take tonally.. which is more what I was meaning. If you just gave Snyder/Goyer a blank slate and said: "Superman, any way you want to do it at all - direction, tone, etc with no word to lead with" would it have looked exactly like MoS, or would it have been different? As a matter of fact, there's every chance that it may have been Snyder's/Goyer's attempt to go the extra mile to please WB's tonal preference that caused the problems in execution I have. Never thought of that before, to be honest, but now I'm curious. That would shed a lot of light on things. And if my suggestion *is* the case, then I'd put 99% of the blame on WB and go much easier on Snyder/Goyer.

I will say, as I've said in other threads, that while the idea of these characters being modern mythology is certainly novel, I think looking at them like Gods and Myth is (imo, of course) a problem. I think, for Superman in particular, folklore is much closer to the mark. There are elements of both, but if Superman was my goal, I'd be mixing in a lot more Paul Bunyon than I would be, say, Zeus, etc.

P.S. I don't like Red Son for three major reasons:
1. How it implies Kal grows up to be a lesser Superman unless he lands in USA.

I suppose, though he's not so different at first - his surroundings change his perceptions and he's there before he realizes it. Superman's rarely done well in an area of political power (at least, not up to this point in most stories we've seen). I honestly didn't see him as "our Superman but with different circumstances" but as a different Superman, so that didn't bother me as much - especially once I saw the ending.

2. Lois married to Luthor.

That one I definitely agree with. And I agree with it more as time goes along.

3. The ending. That God damned ending.

Interesting! I actually thought the ending was genius. It cements that it's not our Superman, and in a way explains exactly why he had the blind spots that he had. In fact, one could technically point to the eventual arc of Alexander Luthor (Earth-3) as this being a pattern of sorts. In that way, this Kal-L was able to break the cycle, which says something.

But to be fair, I give Elseworlds a lot of slack because they're specifically *not* the official Superman, and don't represent the main understanding of the character so much as riff off of aspects from/understandings of him.

I think MoS, BvS, and JL will still be considered movies that most fans will disagree with in the future as they do now.

If Superman Returns is any indication, I'd say that's true. I don't see the division going down, in the long run. Quieter, maybe, but it'll still be there.

[stargazer01]

People are not forced to like every Superman movie or show. We pay with our hard earned $$ to see our hero on the big screen done justice, so if we feel he wasn't well represented, we are totally allowed to say it and complain.

Also, I haven't seen enough people complaining about the last year animated Death of Superman movie or All Star Superman. Maybe because to most those Superman tales were done very well and presented our hero like we want and expect.

[Robanker]

I think it will continue to be more divisive than Returns because, well, Returns was attempting more of the same with a somewhat similar tone to what we expected. Snyder's vision is very teenage edgy and plays at being intelligent when, frankly, it is poorly thought. It was far more ambitious and it very much tried, I will always give Snyder that if nothing else, but strictly because this series tried something new it will always have a unique quality to it that fans of that flavor will stand behind forever. Hell, I went in knowing it wasn't going to be my Superman, but maybe this new version can be just as special. I was overall with it until the tornado, and it continued to lose me until the neck snap and subsequent skip from consequence. I was done following.

Man of Steel, BvS and Justice League I've only ever seen once (twice for BvS because I was tired of "watch the ultimate edition." I did. Still rubbish) and I don't really think I will watch them again for a good, long while. I walked out wondering if I was wrong to even like DC anymore because, quite frankly, the movie depressed me to no end. Not even Superman can overcome a bad situation, there's nothing to aspire to. And after all that death and destruction, we worry about our place in the world and build a satellite to watch over this newly discovered god among men. His response? Swat down a multi-million dollar satellite built with taxpayer money and be smug about it. I understand that point earlier in the movie, but when it follows the destruction of Metropolis and the movie ends shortly after, it just presents someone who doesn't want their immense power checked. It's not a good look.

But I can't recall a Zack Snyder movie I've genuinely enjoyed. Some were alright, there's usually a scene or few that are great to rewatch on YouTube, but they're always overly indulgent and underthought. Hard pass, now and possibly forever.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You know, if there's anything the Internet has taught me, it's that trying to convince others that the movies they love/hate are actually terrible/great always works!

[Powerboy]

You know, if there's anything the Internet has taught me, it's that trying to convince others that the movies they love/hate are actually terrible/great always works!

LOL. So true. And let's also remember that, for far too many people, "I liked it" equals "It was great" and "I didn't like it" equals "It was horrible".

[GreatKungLao]

I think it will continue to be more divisive than Returns because, well, Returns was attempting more of the same with a somewhat similar tone to what we expected. Snyder's vision is very teenage edgy and plays at being intelligent when, frankly, it is poorly thought. It was far more ambitious and it very much tried, I will always give Snyder that if nothing else, but strictly because this series tried something new it will always have a unique quality to it that fans of that flavor will stand behind forever. Hell, I went in knowing it wasn't going to be my Superman, but maybe this new version can be just as special. I was overall with it until the tornado, and it continued to lose me until the neck snap and subsequent skip from consequence. I was done following.

Man of Steel, BvS and Justice League I've only ever seen once (twice for BvS because I was tired of "watch the ultimate edition." I did. Still rubbish) and I don't really think I will watch them again for a good, long while. I walked out wondering if I was wrong to even like DC anymore because, quite frankly, the movie depressed me to no end. Not even Superman can overcome a bad situation, there's nothing to aspire to. And after all that death and destruction, we worry about our place in the world and build a satellite to watch over this newly discovered god among men. His response? Swat down a multi-million dollar satellite built with taxpayer money and be smug about it. I understand that point earlier in the movie, but when it follows the destruction of Metropolis and the movie ends shortly after, it just presents someone who doesn't want their immense power checked. It's not a good look.

But I can't recall a Zack Snyder movie I've genuinely enjoyed. Some were alright, there's usually a scene or few that are great to rewatch on YouTube, but they're always overly indulgent and underthought. Hard pass, now and possibly forever.

I guess one of the magics of cinema is how same films influence every person differently. I had a completely opposite experience, prior to BvS I was depressed probably for almost a year, just trying to go through and survive each day, nothing to look forward to and nothing to keep my myself busy with that I genuenly would've enjoyed. One scene in BvS really hit me to the core and made me look at my own situation differently and actually try do something about it. I'm talking about this scene:



The line "I'm afraid I didn't see it because I wasn't looking". Superman had such an innocent and naive view of the world that he couldn't even think about a possibility that someone will try to bomb a peaceful meeting to discuss consequences of his actions. He began to have existential crysis. Does it mean anything to be Superman if atrocities like that are happening? Is being good a fantasy? That was something I could really relate to. Why bother trying if world will fail you with how it actually is.

Then Pa Kent dialogue happened. That was the moment that taught me that the world is bad, BUT there is also good. Even if you have a small amount of it in your life, it is still worth living for. How Lois said on the balcony scene "That farmer's dream is all some people have, it's all that gives them hope". You can translate that both for the movie and for our real world. For some people Superman is all the good they have in their lives and if he gives up, people will lose hope. Lex Luthor tried so hard to create holes in a holy, but in the end Superman saves Lex from his own monstrocity. So I gathered for myself that even if Superman can have tough times like I did and still overcome it, then so can I.

The dialogue with Martha also influenced me in a sense that I found support in her words to my own worldview. She is right that Superman doesn't owe this world a thing and never did. That makes his heroism even more precious, because if he choses to be hero because he wants to, instead of feeling obligated to do so, makes him a genuine hero.

Listen, I realize that realistic and grounded take is not for everyone. I have nothing against an escapism. What I am against is a notion that escapism is the only "correct" way to do superheroes. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

[Superlad93]

Holy sh!t why did Dan Slott go ham af on Twitter for like an hour or something about Man of Steel for like no reason today lmao ?

Like, don't get me wrong, I got no kinda love for those movies at all for a bunch of reason, and I'm not making fun of Slott, but.....like, why tho, Dan lol ?

And dude, he took it to the mats too, man. He was out here replying an sh!t, throwin snark, and really gettin into it. And whole time I'm like "damn, Dan baby, what is you doin" hahaha

[Superbat]

Holy sh!t why did Dan Slott go ham af on Twitter for like an hour or something about Man of Steel for like no reason today lmao ?

Like, don't get me wrong, I got no kinda love for those movies at all for a bunch of reason, and I'm not making fun of Slott, but.....like, why tho, Dan lol ?

And dude, he took it to the mats too, man. He was out here replying an sh!t, throwin snark, and really gettin into it. And whole time I'm like "damn, Dan baby, what is you doin" hahaha

Four days ago he said something positive about the Donner movies and got replies telling him they were cheesy and how much better the Snyder movies were. Dan hit his limit after getting replies like that for days.