Android 17 vs. Golden Freeza vs. Ultimate Gohan

[wjowski]

they get combat training from their angels so if nothing else it stands to reason the ones that are more diligent about training are stronger than the ones that aren't even if it isn't explicitly mentioned like Champa in the manga

Beerus and diligent don't strike me as two words that belong in the same sentence.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Beerus and diligent don't strike me as two words that belong in the same sentence.

The guy is lazy, but he's also a top tier master martial already that specializes in extremely precise strikes and blasts, who lives with his teacher, probably the only guy in the universe that's more skilled than him.

What I'm saying is that he probably had to be extremely diligent to get to the point that he is at now, especially if it ends up being that he used to be a mortal before becoming a God of Destruction, ala Toppo.

[Hiromi]

keep in mind that his whole motive for finding a Super Saiyan God was to have something decent to fight

[BitVyper]

I really liked the big GoD fight in the comics just 'cause it gave Beerus some time in the spotlight to show that he's actually pretty really effective even when measured against the other GoDs.

[wjowski]

I dunno, honestly it's hard to take seriously two slackers like Beerus and Quitela are the most powerful of the GoDs.

I mean, if they're so powerful why are their respective universes on the chopping block?

[master of read]

I dunno, honestly it's hard to take seriously two slackers like Beerus and Quitela are the most powerful of the GoDs.

I mean, if they're so powerful why are their respective universes on the chopping block?

it really has nothing to do with their power. it's about the "mortallity level". I.E. how well developed their universes were in relations to the others. hence why some of the universes were exempt from participation in the tournament. because the kais were damn near wiped out by buu and how lazy beerus is at his job, that's why universe 7 was second lowest of the 8 universes fighting in the TOP.

[Len Ikari145]

I dunno, honestly it's hard to take seriously two slackers like Beerus and Quitela are the most powerful of the GoDs.

I mean, if they're so powerful why are their respective universes on the chopping block?

Because the Mortal Level System isn't measured by just power levels, but the prosperity of civilization, advancement in technology, etc. Given that Beerus destroys worlds for the pettiest of reasons, the Supreme Kai is completely inept when it comes to guiding the lower worlds to further their development since he never completed his training and thought that taking a passive role was best, and the most advanced and prosperous societies in the universe are limited in number to a few planets despite how vast each universe is, it's no wonder Zeno wants them wiped out.

In other words, Beerus and Supreme Kai are horrible at their jobs because Beerus is a lazy, impulsive and bi-polar cat and the Supreme Kai is a clueless git.

EDIT: Aw man! You stole my thunder, MoR!>.<

[The Drunkard Kid]

I don't know that Supreme Kai is particularly bad at his job, since we don't really have any idea what, exactly, the Supreme Kais do. In his case, he's the only active Supreme Kai in his entire universe and was raised to the position because everyone senior to him was killed, and he spent the intervening time mostly trying to stop Buu from being released and/or rampaging, which would probably have dropped the Mortal Level like a rock, as well as not leaving anyone strong enough to participate in the Tournament of Power.

[master of read]

I don't know that Supreme Kai is particularly bad at his job, since we don't really have any idea what, exactly, the Supreme Kais do. In his case, he's the only active Supreme Kai in his entire universe and was raised to the position because everyone senior to him was killed, and he spent the intervening time mostly trying to stop Buu from being released and/or rampaging, which would probably have dropped the Mortal Level like a rock, as well as not leaving anyone strong enough to participate in the Tournament of Power.

yeah, i really don't blame shin for how low universe 7 was on the totem pole. compared to the other kais, some of whom were bigger, stronger and wiser than him, he kinda just fell into the role as opposed to just ascending to it. now if old kai was around between buu's first rampage and his revivial, i think universe 7 might have been a bit better off than it is.

[Hiromi]

To be fair Super kind of did retroactively take away a lot of the reason to cut him slack, since he never apparently thought to go wake up Beerus and have him deal with Buu, which you would think would be one of the reasons the GoD's exist to begin with. And apparently that was a perfectly valid reason to wake him up too as Whis told Future Trunk to just go have Beerus take care of everything in the new timeline.

[The Drunkard Kid]

To be fair Super kind of did retroactively take away a lot of the reason to cut him slack, since he never apparently thought to go wake up Beerus and have him deal with Buu, which you would think would be one of the reasons the GoD's exist to begin with. And apparently that was a perfectly valid reason to wake him up too as Whis told Future Trunk to just go have Beerus take care of everything in the new timeline.

I'm not sure that Shin actually knew how to get in contact with Whis or Beerus before Super, or would feel that it was particularly necessary so long as Buu was still in hibernation since he himself was unaware that Babidi managed to enlist friggin' Dabura, since siccing Beerus on even an awake Buu is like swatting a fly with a nuke. He was planning to just lure out Babidi and then get the strongest people he could find to help jump him before they could get quite enough power to wake up Buu, which worked in Trunks' timeline (though it killed him and Beerus in the process) and would have worked much better in the main timeline, except that Vegeta was still alive there.

[wjowski]

it really has nothing to do with their power. it's about the "mortallity level". I.E. how well developed their universes were in relations to the others. hence why some of the universes were exempt from participation in the tournament. because the kais were damn near wiped out by buu and how lazy beerus is at his job, that's why universe 7 was second lowest of the 8 universes fighting in the TOP.

Well I mean...that's kinda my point. Beerus wasn't doing his job. Part of that job, I should think, would involve training to keep his skills sharp, something I doubt he did a whole lot of what with all the fifty year naps.

[master of read]

Well I mean...that's kinda my point. Beerus wasn't doing his job. Part of that job, I should think, would involve training to keep his skills sharp, something I doubt he did a whole lot of what with all the fifty year naps.

his job is to destroy worlds to make room for newer ones, which he has slacked on for a long time. slacking on his skills as a fighter doesn't really come up. and even then, you can't say his skills are dulled since he's still the strongest dude in universe 7, barring whis. so again, the strength and skill of a G.O.D. has nothing to do with their job or how well their respective universe is prospering.

[BitVyper]

I'm not sure that Shin actually knew how to get in contact with Whis or Beerus before Super, or would feel that it was particularly necessary so long as Buu was still in hibernation since he himself was unaware that Babidi managed to enlist friggin' Dabura, since siccing Beerus on even an awake Buu is like swatting a fly with a nuke. He was planning to just lure out Babidi and then get the strongest people he could find to help jump him before they could get quite enough power to wake up Buu, which worked in Trunks' timeline (though it killed him and Beerus in the process) and would have worked much better in the main timeline, except that Vegeta was still alive there.

Also note that like, Beerus is not a surgical tool. If you ask him to go destroy Buu, he's going to go destroy the entire Earth. And since you woke him up maybe a few other planets too. Like he's mellow right now because he's being fed, but the overall impression is that waking up your god of destruction is not something you do lightly.

[wjowski]

his job is to destroy worlds to make room for newer ones, which he has slacked on for a long time. slacking on his skills as a fighter doesn't really come up. and even then, you can't say his skills are dulled since he's still the strongest dude in universe 7, barring whis. so again, the strength and skill of a G.O.D. has nothing to do with their job or how well their respective universe is prospering.

Surely the fighting skills of a GoD has something to do with their job, otherwise why would they get the training they do?