About this guy, Ippo - I've never read the series. Since it's a looooong series, surely he has faced off against people in stuff other than boxing-rules fights? Just checking.
About this guy, Ippo - I've never read the series. Since it's a looooong series, surely he has faced off against people in stuff other than boxing-rules fights? Just checking.
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate
Nope. Hajime no Ippo is a boxing series about boxers. Like 98% of all conflict are in the ring settled under boxing rules.
There's been like... two street fights [kind of] and one character fought a bear. Ippo himself was involved in none of these engagements.
If anything, the series has tended towards more realism since it's inception. Rookie Ippo was doing stuff like one punching people so hard they full on flipped head over heels and other such wackiness but it's calmed down as time as gone on. There's a bit of the old "my special technique," knocking about but it's much less concerned with that these days.
It's... y'know... more about actual boxing.
That would be Imai Cosmo.
Yeah, I feel he's in big trouble here, then. He's up against some people who are not only highly skilled strikers, but highly skilled grapplers. Real world, the vast majority of the time that plays out poorly for the pure striker.
Thank you. Embarrassing that I blanked on his name, dude is one of my favorite characters. ^_^That would be Imai Cosmo.
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate
As a quick query, anyone know who the dude next to Naruto is supposed to be?
His design looks familiar and like... wait.. is that meant to be Tekken Chinmi? Did my boy make it into a mainstream anime versus match on accident?
... hold on...
*goes to check*
Last edited by Nik Hasta; 11-08-2021 at 05:27 AM.
IT IS!
Hahaha! Man, I can't believe I didn't clock it was him until now, that's been bugging me all morning.
Oh man, he might be a dark horse in this. He's a classically trained martial artist, has tons of experience fighting differing styles including grapplers, has tons of experience of fighting with normal human stats so nerf won't effect him too much and he has some grappling feats here and there as well. He doesn't have as much experience of the specific UFC/MMA ruleset but he's definitely a contender.
He loses a couple of fancy chi tricks, his main fight-ender is the Tsuhaiken technique which like a palm strike that can transmit chi through objects, attacks internal organs and other such stuff, but the rest of the time he just relies on being a really good fighter.
I vaguely recall reading some of that. Seems like we might have yet another person who stands a good chance.
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate
I really should do a respect thread for Chinmi at some point. He's a really fun character with like an acre of feats.
Trouble is locating scans of all the series. It's been running pretty consistently since 1983 but it's never taken off in the West in a way that means it gets regularly scanlated and the books are often out of print. :/
I mean, I think it depends on what translates here, because he's pretty much the only character (that I'm familiar with) who doesn't have 70% of his skills become largely irrelevant once he's stuck in a "normal" body. He may not be the best rounded fighter there, but he doesn't have a bunch of reflexes honed for flying and psychic duels.
I am a mighty wizard from magic lands
Just to take Ohma as an example, Kengan Asura has a metric ton of fights that showcase some serious, real-world fighting techniques and fundamentals. Yes, those fights often get taken to exaggerated extremes, with weird special techniques or abilities thrown around, but we also get some pretty classic MMA stuff, including (as noted) Ohma doing stuff like subbing people with guillotine chokes (subbing someone considered in that manga as being one of the best technical grapplers, and often showcased as such - again, with albeit exaggerated but real-world techniques) and doing a lot of groundwork as well as fundamental striking. And defending himself quite well in a more pedestrian manner when he's up against someone against whom his special defenses don't work.
This does continue, to a lesser extent, in Kengan Omega.
For me, this is enough to give the win to Ohma over a boxer, all things being equal, pure strikers historically not doing terribly well against more-rounded fighters. Boxers demolish MMA dudes when the MMA dude steps into a boxing ring; the same thing tends to happen in the other direction when a pure striker with zero grappling experience gets into an MMA ring. That's not even including kicks, knees, elbows, which Ohma does use quite well and in a more real world fashion (ie, not all magic special techniques), all of which are completely unfamiliar to pure boxers.
On top of that, there's Ippo (164 cm, 57 kg) giving up a crapton of height and weight to someone like Ohma (182 cm, 85 kg). I don't feel that's necessary for Ohma to take the win here, mind; his more-rounded stuff should allow him to get in and take the boxer down. But if there's any doubt, one should also consider that the OP doesn't state that stats are equalized - just 'normal human' - and Ippo is quite small compared to Ohma.
Mileage, it may vary.
Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 11-08-2021 at 09:39 AM.
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate
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Cool.
Yeah I'd say that's about right.
That is very true. Also it raises the question of do these guys get any time to adjust to their altered states or are they just thrown in with no idea what's going on? Is it like, one minute Naruto's going about his day and the next there's a flash of light and he finds himself in the middle of a cage wearing just shorts and gloves, and some meathead is attacking him?Originally Posted by Nik Hasta
Off-topic, does anyone else really hate UFC/MMA? It's bland and tedious. See one match, you've seen them all. Besides a few exceptions everyone basically does the same boxing/Muay Thai/Brazillian jujitsu mix. There's no richness or variety.
"That's what works" you say. No, that's what's popular. ALL martial arts "work" if they're taught properly (i.e. against people who actively resist and don't just let you use a technique on them). Remember when everyone was saying Karate was "useless" because its front kicks were supposedly too weak to be any good in a fight? And then a guy got knocked out by a Karate front kick.
Unless something is done I foresee MMA leading to serious stagnation and metaphorical inbreeding in the martial arts world.
Last edited by hareluyafan1; 11-09-2021 at 05:42 AM.
Standard idea is that no, they don't get time to retrain or anything, but we don't penalize people for suddenly popping in somewhere else in total surprise.
I don't...hate it. I'm off the bloody nature of it, but when I do sit down and watch it, there's often something interesting from a technical aspect to it (normally in the grappling). Or I see something neat (like an undercard bout being won by a double-fake to a spinning backfist KO).Off-topic, does anyone else really hate UFC/MMA? It's bland and tedious. See one match, you've seen them all. Besides a few exceptions everyone basically does the same boxing/Muay Thai/Brazillian jujitsu mix. There's no richness or variety.
But the vast majority of people now use the specific 'MMA style' (for all they deny styles, MMA now has its own style, see below), yes.
It's always less about the style and more about 'how that school trains'. It's fair to say that MMA/UFC DID change the martial arts world, in that it forced people to come face-to-face with their ideas about how effective their training was, and realize that it likely isn't great for actual fighting. It did remove or discredit some of the magical bullshit, though we still see that (and always will). And it proved that focusing on fundamentals with resistance was more important than trying to learn fancy techniques. All of this because it's far CLOSER to real fighting than pretty much everything else."That's what works" you say. No, that's what's popular. ALL martial arts "work" if they're taught properly (i.e. against people who actively resist and don't just let you use a technique on them). Remember when everyone was saying Karate was "useless" because its front kicks were supposedly too weak to be any good in a fight? And then a guy got knocked out by a Karate front kick.
But like many other things in the martial arts world, it became myopic and ultra-reductionist: 'my way is the only way'. <-- hugely common perspective in martial arts, which is kinda sad.
Well, it's a sport. Period. It's closer to real fighting than any other codified sport, but it's still a sport, with specific rules in a specific venue. Hence, the development of an MMA 'style' that is hyper-focused on winning under THOSE rules, in THAT venue, and ignoring stuff that isn't directly applicable to winning under those circumstances. Which is fine in some ways, because it's far more effective in a general sense than a lot of stuff, owing to the kind of training and the fact that the venue itself is more close to real fighting than most - if not all, non-Dog-brothers kind of stuff - other venues.Unless something is done I foresee MMA leading to serious stagnation and metaphorical inbreeding in the martial arts world.
But it's still a sport, and outside of its venue it can have problems...like all sports do (for one example of an MMA issue, dealing with weapons). And in MMA gyms that obsess about winning matches, nothing more, it will become more and more hyper-focused toward 'winning under the rules'.
But then, this has happened to pretty much every single 'style' out there, to some extent or another. Consequences of living in a society where people can't just walk around beating the crap out of each other to test their stuff.* ^_^ One can look back to certain periods in feudal Japan where similar stuff happened with swordsmanship, as another example, during times where the Shogun forbade dueling. Edit: Loss of realism in the teaching, but rather happily balanced out by less people dying horribly in duels, so...
* this is not a bad thing, from my perspective!
Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 11-09-2021 at 07:14 AM.
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate
There's always stuff like the Dog Brothers do for 'testing validity', but then...there's a very good reason why most of their long-term members are often either on hiatus or 'retired' from active training. Too many injuries.
It's a fine line between 'testing your stuff/training realistically' and 'training safely, but giving up some of that realism to do so'.
Why are we here?
"Superboy Prime (the yelling guy if he needs clarification)..." - Postmania
"...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik
"Why throw punches when you can be making everyone around you sterile mutant corpses?" - Pendaran, regarding Dr. Fate