Are we, as DC fans, 'jealous of the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

[DrNewGod]

Lucasfilms absolutely caved into the "Star Wars is only about the OT" people when it came to The Force Awakens...

May not be the right thread for this, but I'm a bit baffled. Given the venom sprayed at the last two ST films by OT fans, in what way did "Lucasfilms absolutely [cave] into the 'Star Wars is only about the OT'"?

[AquaLantern]

May not be the right thread for this, but I'm a bit baffled. Given the venom sprayed at the last two ST films by OT fans, in what way did "Lucasfilms absolutely [cave] into the 'Star Wars is only about the OT'"?

When they had JJ Abrams practically ripoff A New Hope and basically resetting the universe in order to repeat the same underdog rebels vs top dog Empire conflict.

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Has anyone made the Suicide Squad has won an Oscar whilst Marvel are still waiting for one joke yet?

[Buried Alien]

When they had JJ Abrams practically ripoff A New Hope and basically resetting the universe in order to repeat the same underdog rebels vs top dog Empire conflict.

Of course, in the decade before that, the complaint was that the Prequels were "too different" from the Original Trilogy.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[SiegePerilous02]

She answered for her actions by helping to save the people of Sokovia. Simple as that. She doesn't need to go to jail. If heroes always went to jail when they did something wrong, Batman would be locked up for vigilantism and attempted murder on Superman and Diana would go to jail for murder. Plus, she was in jail at the end of Civil War.

Maybe DCEU Batman should go to jail for his vigilantism and attempted murder of Superman, but he also didn't mind rape a super powered individual and unleash him on a civilian era and not really show any particular remorse for it.

Diana killed a super powered opponent in a war setting. Calling that murder is pretty debatable, otherwise every solider is a murderer.

Wanda ended up in jail, but it wasn't for anything she did in Age of Ultron.

What? Are you serious? So you're saying that its okay for the cops to arrest innocent people because "they believe they did it"? Bucky did not commit the crime that he was accused of. And, again, him being captured was what allowed Zemo to get to him. Zemo played the cops to further his own plan. If Bucky and Steve had gotten away, Zemo's plan would have failed.

If cops have a likely suspect, taking them in for questioning is generally how that works. They also had security footage indicating him.

Yeah Zemo played the cops to further his own plan, but Steve didn't know Zemo existed at that point, so while he should have intervened to an extent to help his friend, he also cannot claim he knew it would end in disaster and is wrong to adopt an "I am right and everyone else is wrong" stance.

But that's exactly what you were saying Tony should do...

That's why I said it was sensible, but I'm not thrilled about it personally because I'm not interested in Peter being mentored by older heroes. But in the case of the spoilers for the ending you indicated, I would probably be fine with end of the movie.

Even so, he still did this AFTER he dragged Peter into the more dangerous Civil War conflict.

They barely touch on Civil War. But, Tony not telling Peter the whole story is not really a big deal. He told him enough. He told him about how Cap doesn't want to sign the Accords and thinks he's right. That's kind of all there is to it.

It kind of is a big deal, and there is more to the story than that (I can't remember, does he inform Peter about the whole thing with Bucky?). Regardless, it is still a very dangerous situation that he's bringing a minor into, without May's knowing. He seems more concerned with remarking about how hot May is than maybe being concerned with how she'd feel about her nephew being a vigilante that he's using for his feud with Steve.

[DrNewGod]

When they had JJ Abrams practically ripoff A New Hope and basically resetting the universe in order to repeat the same underdog rebels vs top dog Empire conflict.

Okay, I get what you're saying now. I'd submit that many OT fans (including me) were as annoyed by the hollow retread as anyone else, and that the caving was to Disney suits more than to OT fans, as evidenced by the portrayal most OT sacred cows (meaning, heroes other than Leia) got in the new films. If we wish to extend the discussion, we probably need to take it to the ST or TV/Film forum.

[Carabas]

Lucasfilms absolutely caved into the "Star Wars is only about the OT" people when it came to The Force Awakens and yet:

Star Wars I(1999): $1,027,044,67
Star Wars II(2002): $656,695,615
Star Wars III(2005): $848,998,877

I'm supposed to believe those BO numbers are hugely disappointing.

The Prequels were made by a person who is no longer in the picture and no longer runs Lucasfilm like a he owns the place. Because he sold it.

Are you suggesting Lucasfilm should have stayed true to Lucas' vision and make Episode 3.5? They made the Prequel trilogy. Are you suggesting they should have made another Prequel trilogy?

[Johnny Thunders!]

I do love the Marvel Cinematic universe so much but there is a big part of me that wishes it was the DCEU with so many great films and ideas under its belt.

[Sacred Knight]

The concept of "caving in" is feeling forced to do something. Often times something you wouldn't really want to do otherwise. So the Star Wars situation isn't an example of caving to fan pressure. There was no pressure. The Prequels may have a bad rep, but they made bank. So there was no pressure to make a change back to a more OT style and feel. I mean, I'm not saying Disney didn't have a pulse on things and get that fans would probably appreciate a return to such a feel. But at the same time their hands weren't tied; it wasn't a direction they HAD to go in.

So its not the same situation as JL. The DCEU has a bad rep AND has consistently underperformed. A change of direction HAD to happen (even if the resulting change of direction still wasn't any good). They felt forced to make major changes to JL because of that and a continuing chaos in producing JL. In that sense, they caved to fans only in the sense that fans weren't seeing the films. At least not enough. As Carabas said, piss poor Box Office. Star Wars has never had that problem.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Maybe DCEU Batman should go to jail for his vigilantism and attempted murder of Superman, but he also didn't mind rape a super powered individual and unleash him on a civilian era and not really show any particular remorse for it.

But she did show remorse for it. Her siding with the Avengers and turning on Ultron is her reforming and showing remorse for what she did before.

Diana killed a super powered opponent in a war setting. Calling that murder is pretty debatable, otherwise every solider is a murderer.

Unless Diana is an official combatant in this conflict, then she’s a rogue entity. And even as an official sanctioned combatant, what she did went against orders and even Steve tried to stop her. So, yeah, it would still be murder.

And again, Ludendorff is about as superpowered compared to Diana as Bane or Deathstroke is compared to her in the comics.

If cops have a likely suspect, taking them in for questioning is generally how that works. They also had security footage indicating him.

Except Bucky isn’t just any suspect. The police had no interest in treating him with the same due process as other suspects in a regular case. We saw that when they basically just had him locked up in a box. What you’re saying would hold if they were actually interested in investigating, but as far as they were concerned, Bucky did it and that’s that. So, yes, Bucky was justified in running from them.

Yeah Zemo played the cops to further his own plan, but Steve didn't know Zemo existed at that point, so while he should have intervened to an extent to help his friend, he also cannot claim he knew it would end in disaster and is wrong to adopt an "I am right and everyone else is wrong" stance.

He knew he was right and everyone else was wrong because the Bucky he knew wouldn’t do that. And he believed the Bucky he still knew was in there because he saved him in Winter Soldier. And in the end, he was right. Simple as that.

That's why I said it was sensible, but I'm not thrilled about it personally because I'm not interested in Peter being mentored by older heroes. But in the case of the spoilers for the ending you indicated, I would probably be fine with end of the movie.

Again, you have to watch the movie because Peter rebels against Tony treating him like a kid the whole time.

Even so, he still did this AFTER he dragged Peter into the more dangerous Civil War conflict.

Again, he knew Cap wouldn’t hurt a fellow hero too severely, especially a kid.

It kind of is a big deal, and there is more to the story than that (I can't remember, does he inform Peter about the whole thing with Bucky?). Regardless, it is still a very dangerous situation that he's bringing a minor into, without May's knowing. He seems more concerned with remarking about how hot May is than maybe being concerned with how she'd feel about her nephew being a vigilante that he's using for his feud with Steve.

It’s actually left kind of open how much Tony told Peter. But yes, he probably told him that there was a Winter Soldier that he’d be facing.

Either way, though, I don’t see us convincing one another.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

This whole thread about if DC fans are jealous of Marvel movies, has turned into arguments of liberal vs conservative consequences for characters in the Marvel movies.

Batman is labelling criminals who end up killed in prison when labelled. He knows this. He should be charged with Manslaughter yet not an argument about that because he is a broken man and then he is redeemed at the end of the movie because he has an awesome fight scene.

Yet Scarlet Witch should face charges? Have a consistent argument at least.

[Robotman]

I’ve enjoyed the Marvel movies and I’m sure Infinity War will be absolutely amazing. But I’m a bit concerned that the success of Marvel Studios and WB’s failures with the DC cinematic universe have basically created a generation of young fans who will always view DC characters as inferior.

Kevin Feige’s comments this week about potential Marvel movies for their next phase are interesting. He’s mentioned both Nova and Moon Knight as possible film franchises. I wonder if Marvel has realized that they’ve become so popular that it’s possible to take away any little advantage DC may have left. Thanos’ appearance as the big bad of the MCU pretty much means that Darkseid will always be seen by mainstream audiences as the lesser of the two cosmic villains. Nova could become as popular as Green Lantern with a blockbuster film and while Moon Knight will never be as beloved as Batman, Marvel will at least have a comparable character to market. Just waiting for that Sentry film to be announced.

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Thanos’ appearance as the big bad of the MCU pretty much means that Darkseid will always be seen by mainstream audiences as the lesser of the two cosmic villains.

Only if they write him the same way in which case it's their own fault as there's no more to him than a cosmic conqueror. Darkseid has a lot of potential with things like the anti-life equation, having a Games of Thrones like back story with the New Gods swapping children and having a truce, a good supporting cast with the Female Furies, G. Gordon Godfrey etc than and Apokolips itself.

[Gaastra]

They also just confirmed the eternals movie with sersi as the lead hero that is marvels new gods. (not counting the lesser known young gods) Looks like they wanted to make a eternals movie for some time but had to wait till now. So both eternals and new gods may come out around the same time.

[dancj]

And yet the movie utilized prequel elements, like the balance of the Force, Jedi temples, the word "Sith," etc.

The word Sith dates back to the 70s.