DC/WB Films/Worlds (No Spoilers)

[Last Son of Krypton]

Birds of Prey Changes Title After Box Office Struggles: https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/10/...-harley-quinn/

[Vakanai]

That might be true. But, in this era of internet and age of information. People, especially casuals have an image of charaters in their head. Especially, characters like birds of prey who had outside media portrayals and appearance. What casual fans tend to do is check if that particular property is being adapted. Then they compare the promotions with their preconceived notion. If it doesn't match and the character is beloved like batman or superman or even sonic. There will be backlash. Otherwise, there wpuld be apathy.

Coming to the number of casual fans and their influence. I believe it can cause an impact. Because casual fans are a sizable amount. And their word of mouth, social media reactions.. Etc create buzz for a movie and helps marketing . Which inturn creates business for the movie because it seeps into everyday audiences.So these things can impact.

Disagree - most people aren't scouring the web to see what comic nerds think of how faithful a film is, and the few minor appearances of the BoP characters in outside media is small and limited enough to make no real difference.

[SiegePerilous02]

Let's not act like Wonder Woman and Aquaman were guaranteed successes. Diana hadn't had a major adaptation since the Lynda Carter show. Aquaman's reputation was primarily as a joker for people who did know him and Jason Mamoa wasn't exactly major draw with many calling him a miscast.

Let's not act like Shazam or the BOP are the same level of name recognition as Wonder Woman or Aquaman, regardless of what people think of them. It's not surprising that a property with a bigger named character, as long as the film is good, would get more attention than more relatively obscure characters. They were also films designed with a broader appeal to wider audiences. Shazam and BOP seem to be on opposite ends: Shazam may seem to kiddie to appeal to older teens and young adults, and BOP is rated R which eliminates most families bringing kids to it.

That doesn't mean either of these are bad films (Shazam at least definitely isn't) or complete failures. Pointing this out is NOT being all doom and gloom here. And Shazam in particular was still a moderate success and we're getting a sequel and hopefully Dwayne Johnson can bring in a wider audience.

[Vakanai]

Yet almost all these faithful adaptions appear to get praise and box office.

Typically because those movies are also good. Joker was nothing like the comics and got praise and box office too. Faithfulness isn't really that important, quality is, and even that isn't enough sometimes.

[Skullkid]

No, disagree. Those 3 films you're citing are intended to be blockbusters, they have higher budgets and therefore greater advertising. If those films start failing, yeah, we can have a conversation, but I don't see how low budget films performing mildly is an indicator of anything.

Also, there is a difference between saying "MCU is a stronger brand than the DCEU," which is fine and "The DCEU brand is not a strong brand." which is indefensible. Like, if you don't think the DCEU is a good brand, then what is? Like seriously, what, Fast and Furious and the MCU?

A think a good brand should be something that both sells and has good public reception.
I would think the DCEU does not fit that description, given what's happened so far.

[AnakinFlair]

Yeah! I think gcs would have done better. That was my initial opinion. Atleast with ivy and catwoman she gets to have partners who are equal. From what i've read she said, she didn't want to be front and center. That would have been very possible with that movie. With this, she will be made front and center because suits will want that. Since, bop are "unknowns" and there isn't a Barbara gordon.

If that's the case, she failed miserably. Harley was front and center, with only Renee and Dinah getting any appreciable screen time for development. Not-Cassandra was a McGuffin and Huntress was a glorified cameo.

Are any CB movies truly faithful (that's going all the way back to the first Superman films)?

I think most are faithful to the spirit of the story, if not the letter. Cap fought Red Skull in World War II, Bucky was lost and believed to be killed, and he gets frozen in ice before being thawed out in the present. Tony Stark makes weapons, gets captured in a warzone and forced to build weapons, creates a mechanical suit to escape. Steve Trevor crashes on Themyscira, and Diana takes him back to Man's World. Kal El is sent to Earth to escape Krypton's destruction, grows to be Superman, etc, etc, etc.

I think giving it the title “Birds of Prey” was a huge mistake. Harley is your draw and her name was buried in the subtitle. It should have been “HARLEY QUINN & The Birds of Prey!”

You were close! Studio literally just renamed the movie Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey.

Mostly this. Nobody in their right mind trusts them now to get it right by now; so all the fancy movie dates are nothing but a fantasy unless the movie actually lands. They do not have MCUs reliable track record. I mean how many times did Flash got delayed (... rhetorical question).

With DC, it seems that most of the time it's that they can't hold on to directors. Flash has had several, Batman had a couple, even Wonder Woman changed directors. I don't know if it's that they can't quite crack the story, or if it's that the studio is demanding something and the directors would rather walk.

BoP is highly experimental in terms of the audience it was trying to attract. There are very few violent R rated movies with female leads. The good thing is WB was aware of how experimental the film was and priced it accordingly.

I swear though, the way some of you people speak, do you have any idea how powerful the DCEU brand actually is? Any company would kill to have a brand as recognizable and as a media spanning as the DC; their characters sell movies, tv shows, video games, merchandise, its a licence to print money. The only reason why you people can't recognize how fantastic the DC brand is right now is because 'muh MCU!"

DC is killing it on the small screen. But on the big screen, they are still struggling. On the flip side, Marvel has had some success on the small screen, but then those shows became victims of both Disney's larger corporate plans and the reshuffling of the people in charge. Now we'll have to see how successful their new crop of shows are on Disney+ (and I think they will be successful).

Those costumes are awesome. I wish we had gotten those in the movie.

[nightw1ng]

Birds of Prey Changes Title After Box Office Struggles: https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/10/...-harley-quinn/

I'm not a fan of title changes after something has already been released. Sure, at least they're acknowledging they messed up some of the marketing, but it feels a little desperate. The situation kind of reminds me of when the WB changed "Edge of Tomorrow" to "Live Die Repeat: Edge of Tomorrow" for home video, because I guess people confused the tagline for the title.

[Badou]

Birds of Prey Changes Title After Box Office Struggles: https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/10/...-harley-quinn/

A bit too late, but I guess it is worth a shot. Changing the title and putting Harley Quinn at the start on ticket sites might make people aware it is a Harley Quinn movie instead of burying her name at the end of some stupidly long title and wondering what Birds of Prey is.

It should have just been a Harley Quinn solo movie from the start. Harley Quinn is a bigger brand than Birds of Prey and I'll never understand the decision to stick Harley in a BoP movie in the first place. This movie should be taught in marketing classes as a way not to title and market an IP.

[Badou]

They even drastically changed her costume from the Suicide Squad movie. You can like or dislike her SS costume, but it was proven to be a very popular design. I've seen that costume everywhere for years now. So they have this new movie mainly about Harley Quinn, but title it Birds of Prey and not Harley Quinn. Then Harley is in a dramatically different costume on all the marketing compared to this design that people have come to associate with the character. So when the average person (who doesn't have much or any comic book knowledge) sees any marketing for this Birds of Prey movie they don't really have any reference to what it is about. Since none of the other characters stand out or are commonly known either. The decision making here just blows my mind.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I’m not an expert but I’m kinda surprised this failed so hard. It didn’t seem high budget, Harley Quinn seemed like a popular character. I thought this would do well even if the reviews were dogcrap.

I think giving it the title “Birds of Prey” was a huge mistake. Harley is your draw and her name was buried in the subtitle. It should have been “HARLEY QUINN & The Birds of Prey!”

I think Warner Brothers might owe you a paycheck

[Colossus1980]

Since none of the other characters stand out or are commonly known either. The decision making here just blows my mind.

Been trying to avoid a lot of the spoilers but from what people have been posting no capes? If that's the case what a shame. That's no way to make distinguishing looks for the characters and what's the point of buying generic action figures?

[Agent Z]

Let's not act like Shazam or the BOP are the same level of name recognition as Wonder Woman or Aquaman, regardless of what people think of them. It's not surprising that a property with a bigger named character, as long as the film is good, would get more attention than more relatively obscure characters. They were also films designed with a broader appeal to wider audiences. Shazam and BOP seem to be on opposite ends: Shazam may seem to kiddie to appeal to older teens and young adults, and BOP is rated R which eliminates most families bringing kids to it.

That doesn't mean either of these are bad films (Shazam at least definitely isn't) or complete failures. Pointing this out is NOT being all doom and gloom here. And Shazam in particular was still a moderate success and we're getting a sequel and hopefully Dwayne Johnson can bring in a wider audience.

Wonder Woman and Aquaman's name recognition wasn't that big until recently is my point. Their films could just as easily have tanked. They do not have the history that Batman and to a lesser extent Superman have as major icons and money makers for WB.

No being doom and gloom is declaring a film that has just come out to be a box office failure as is clearly happening in this thread and constantly bringing up the reception of past movies that have little or no bearing on current ones even after we have successes like Aquaman. People are not simply "pointing things out" when it comes to the DCEU. Not a day goes by that there aren't comments (some with more than a hint of smugness) about how they are doomed or should reboot or will never catch up to Marvel or whatever else. Your attitude might be a bit more positive or neutral but that is far from the case for a number of comments here. Just a few pages back we had someone say the Supergirl movie was going to flop if we don't get a good Superman movie. We had another saying they hope the Birds of Prey movie tanks just because they hate Harley. This type of attitude plagues every DCEU movie pre and post-release.

[Frontier]

Wonder Woman and Aquaman's name recognition wasn't that big until recently is my point. Their films could just as easily have tanked. They do not have the history that Batman and to a lesser extent Superman have as major icons and money makers for WB.

I think they definitely had more name recognition then some of the characters Marvel have made movies out of, even if Aquaman's is mostly revolving around how much of a joke people used to think he is.

[Agent Z]

I think they definitely had more name recognition then some of the characters Marvel have made movies out of, even if Aquaman's is mostly revolving around how much of a joke people used to think he is.

True but it wasn't much. The only frame of reference the majority would have had are the Lynda Carter show and the Superfriends show neither of which has aged very well.

[Psy-lock]

I can't help but gloat a little at the spectacular failure of Birds of Prey. Justice has been served! That's what you get for removing Oracle, butchering Cassandra Cain and turning the others into Harley Quinn's backup dancers. Maybe this will put an end to DC's hard on for Quinn? Oh, who am I kidding? They'll put her in WW3 next.

Birds of Prey Changes Title After Box Office Struggles: https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/10/...-harley-quinn/

That's kinda pathetic.