New Champions Appreciation 2018

[MarvelFan91]

That iconic image of Captain America punching Hitler in the face is goofy as hell. Today it's more meme-worthy than anything else, not the biting social commentary you're searching for.

Even then, it was a big damn deal. And it's still a powerful image given the current political climate. And really, when you have books like the current Ms. Marvel or Ta Neshi Coates's Captain America, your arguments are invalid.

[Kintor]

Even then, it was a big damn deal. And it's still a powerful image given the current political climate. And really, when you have books like the current Ms. Marvel or Ta Neshi Coates's Captain America, your arguments are invalid.

You're still not seeing the difference here. Captain America worked because it's fun to see Hitler being punched in the face. Conversely, the Champions is not fun, it's a bloated self-important diatribe about gun control. If you're going to talk about guns in America then do it right, poke fun at the absurdity of the whole situation.

Just look at this trailer for the movie God Bless America:



That's how you get people thinking seriously about gun control. Laugh at how messed-up the situation really is, then people might do something about it. Marvel's PSA with the Champions is just going to make people turn-off and look away.

[MarvelFan91]

You're still not seeing the difference here. Captain America worked because it's fun to see Hitler being punched in the face. Conversely, the Champions is not fun, it's a bloated self-important diatribe about gun control. If you're going to talk about guns in America then do it right, poke fun at the absurdity of the whole situation.

Just look at this trailer for the movie God Bless America:



That's how you get people thinking seriously about gun control. Laugh at how messed-up the situation really is, then people might do something about it. Marvel's PSA with the Champions is just going to make people turn-off and look away.

There's a difference between dark comedy and exploring ramifications and consequences of gun violence-especially in schools. If we're going by your example, Black Panther should have been like God Bless America tackling racism in a comedic light.

[Kintor]

There's a difference between dark comedy and exploring ramifications and consequences of gun violence-especially in schools. If we're going by your example, Black Panther should have been like God Bless America tackling racism in a comedic light.

Well, Black Panther works because it has that fantastic quality I mentioned earlier. This is mostly centred around the fictional kingdom of Wakanda, with all its near-magical technologies and towering architecture, helps to keep the audience separate from the unpleasantries of reality. If anything the Black Panther movie has more in common with something like the Wizard of Oz then it does Champions #24. Which more to the point shows that #24 is a story out of place with the rest of the Marvel universe.

[MarvelFan91]

Well, Black Panther works because it has that fantastic quality I mentioned earlier. This is mostly centred around the fictional kingdom of Wakanda, with all its near-magical technologies and towering architecture, helps to keep the audience separate from the unpleasantries of reality. If anything the Black Panther movie has more in common with something like the Wizard of Oz then it does Champions #24. Which more to the point shows that #24 is a story out of place with the rest of the Marvel universe.

I don't recall the Dora Milaje breaking into musical numbers in Black Panther. And to make a rebuttal to that last part of your statement, neither is the Punisher. I bring him up in case you happen to be a big fan of his but that dude is a whole can of worms and Jim Zub has nothing to do with him. Marvel is about reflecting the word itself. When you have the X-Men being LGBT analogies (I refuse to go with race given the first X-Men are white people), Champions tackling gun violence is not a far off thing to do. These are still kids, they're going to have strong opinions which, gee, that's real life for ya given the Parkland students. But somehow, Marvel tackling real life stuff is an alien concept to you.

[Kintor]

I don't recall the Dora Milaje breaking into musical numbers in Black Panther. And to make a rebuttal to that last part of your statement, neither is the Punisher. I bring him up in case you happen to be a big fan of his but that dude is a whole can of worms and Jim Zub has nothing to do with him. Marvel is about reflecting the word itself. When you have the X-Men being LGBT analogies (I refuse to go with race given the first X-Men are white people), Champions tackling gun violence is not a far off thing to do. These are still kids, they're going to have strong opinions which, gee, that's real life for ya given the Parkland students. But somehow, Marvel tackling real life stuff is an alien concept to you.

Now you're just being petty, when you're willing to throw the X-Men under a bus because they don't meet your ideological standards 50 years after the comic's publication. It's that same sense of mean-spiritedness that sucks all the fun out of the Champions, #24 would rather berate the readers with some heavy-handed political messaging then tell an entertaining story.

[responsarbre]

You're still not seeing the difference here. Captain America worked because it's fun to see Hitler being punched in the face. Conversely, the Champions is not fun, it's a bloated self-important diatribe about gun control.

Well, that's kind of silly. The issue isn't out yet -- how do we know that it's a "bloated, self-important diatribe about gun control"?

I understand making educated guesses about the approach that Zub and Izaakse are going to take, but can we really make judgments on the quality when the story isn't out for another month? You're also making a lot of assumptions about the direction of the story on top of that. Maybe we should wait until it hits the stands before we decide whether or not this story works.

[MarvelFan91]

Now you're just being petty, when you're willing to throw the X-Men under a bus because they don't meet your ideological standards 50 years after the comic's publication. It's that same sense of mean-spiritedness that sucks all the fun out of the Champions, #24 would rather berate the readers with some heavy-handed political messaging then tell an entertaining story.

I'm throwing the X-Men under the bus calling them an LGBT analogy? You make no sense, dude. But you know what? You want to be a delusional brat, be my guest.

Well, that's kind of silly. The issue isn't out yet -- how do we know that it's a "bloated, self-important diatribe about gun control"?

I understand making educated guesses about the approach that Zub and Izaakse are going to take, but can we really make judgments on the quality when the story isn't out for another month? You're also making a lot of assumptions about the direction of the story on top of that. Maybe we should wait until it hits the stands before we decide whether or not this story works.

What he said.

[skyvolt2000]

I have to ask Kintor with no disrespect but have you just started reading Champions? or have you been reading it from the beginning?

I know what you're saying, gun control is still a big issue to talk about, especially in the states and yeah in some series it wouldn't make sense to talk about it but in a series like "Champions" I feel that most fans or readers of the comic won't be too offended but who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also about what you said, that #24 would be the most "memorable issue of Champions entire run" again I really feel like your giving it too much importance...not to say that it probably won't be a good issue but...

Notice the question was not answered.

a Marvel comic about a school shooting is just as likely to anger and repulse readers as it is to earn their praise. With this Champions ceases to be an entertaining comic book and just becomes thinly-veiled political messaging

And WHO is going to get angry?
The folks who don't read the book?
The folks who hate Miles, Riri, Khan & Sam?
The folks who are offended a book has POC as leads?
The folks who hate the fact a POC is the lead of the story in question?

This book is not even OUT yet and we already got folks throwing fits about it. Let the book come out first.

(Hell, do you remember the issue that batman did about gun control?)

Batman Seduction of the Gun- a cringe worthy story with stereotypes and Tim getting a talk down to about the "hood".

[Anthony W]

I'm getting "a very special issue" vibe from issue 24. The last time Marvel tried this we ended up with the infamous image of Dr. Doom crying.

Also, the idea of gun control in the Marvel Universe is silly. Aliens are real and invade and impersonate humans. Humanity shares the planet with other beings who also have superpowers like the Inhumans, Atlanteans etc. You have your Mutants. You have your monsters. You have heroes who spend all their time fighting them and eachother.

If Marvel is really the world outside your window not only is their no such thing as gun control the average citizen would be using weapons far more advanced than guns.

[nj06]

How has Snowguard been as a character? I expected her to have more of an interaction with the likes of Snowbird. Is she still with the team?

[Digifiend]

Snowbird appeared with Alpha Flight in issue 21. Any connection between her and Amka went unacknowledged. Alpha Flight's involvement ended in that issue as Amka went to live with the Vision family (though Vision was offline at the time thanks to No Surrender, so Viv asked permission after the fact in issue 22!) to avoid commuting from Canada (which would've been inconvenient to the rest of the team). She seems to have quickly become a surrogate sister to the synthezoid, and calls Viv "Vivvy". Snowguard was very angry when she thought Man-Thing had killed Viv!

[MarvelFan91]

I'm getting "a very special issue" vibe from issue 24. The last time Marvel tried this we ended up with the infamous image of Dr. Doom crying.

Also, the idea of gun control in the Marvel Universe is silly. Aliens are real and invade and impersonate humans. Humanity shares the planet with other beings who also have superpowers like the Inhumans, Atlanteans etc. You have your Mutants. You have your monsters. You have heroes who spend all their time fighting them and eachother.

If Marvel is really the world outside your window not only is their no such thing as gun control the average citizen would be using weapons far more advanced than guns.

So, you take those seriously but gun control is somehow silly and unrealistic to you. Curious about whatever drugs you take, dude.

[Anthony W]

So, you take those seriously but gun control is somehow silly and unrealistic to you. Curious about whatever drugs you take, dude.

Work on your reading comprehension, dude. Didn't say that, dude. Was talking about how the average citizen would view gun control in the Marvel Universe and what problems the author would run into, dude. Sorry if you couldn't follow, dude. Maybe boards discussing Marvel Comics just isn't something you are cut out for, dude? But then why would you be here, dude?

Are you lost, dude? Because I can't help with that, dude.

[MarvelFan91]

Work on your reading comprehension, dude. Didn't say that, dude. Was talking about how the average citizen would view gun control in the Marvel Universe and what problems the author would run into, dude. Sorry if you couldn't follow, dude. Maybe boards discussing Marvel Comics just isn't something you are cut out for, dude? But then why would you be here, dude?

Are you lost, dude? Because I can't help with that, dude.

Then maybe superhero comics aren't for you if you don't like social justice.