T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Dboi654]

Even 10 years ago, the essence of what T'Challa/black panther meant was impactful

[Toonstrack]

I hate the fact that caps franchise has stolen so much from Black Panther including calling Bucky white wolf.
Never mind the zemo stuff with him killing king t'chaka and nobody giving a damn.

This is why white wolf is important. King t'chaka was an example for t'challa yet in the movies he comes off almost as a villain since coogler had him abandon a black child in the hood after killing his own brother. That's some Coats type ish.
King t'chaka was not that type of man. He was a great father and a great example to t'challa. Part of that example was him opening up his heart and his country and his Palace to an abandoned white child who happens to crash-land in their neighborhood. An example in humanity and decency.
Tell me what movie verse TChaka would have done with that white child? The same thing that he did with that black kid in the hood or worse. That isn't the man that t'chaka is supposed to be.
White wolf is only important because tchaka took him in and made him part of the royal family setting an example in humanity against all of the teachings of his Nation that t'challa learned from when he decided to open wakanda up to the rest of the world in order to provide help. That's an important lesson that was like many other things stolen from the movie verse. Part of black panthers fundamental story is about fatherhood and setting an example for your kids. An example that t'challa still struggles to live up to in the comics.
Just bothers me and i cant watch it.

Reboot it with Denzel (Tchaka) and John (Tchalla) and have Fuqua direct lol just need to cast a young Tchalla for the flashback scenes

I mean he very clearly still inspired Tchalla. But there's a few things about white wolf's entire thing in the comics that could be seen as problematic and it also honestly is more consistent with how wakanda was portrayed to have him leave the boy tbh. Despite the fact its still definitely wrong, wakanda is an isolationist nation at first but opens itself up more later. Tchalla I think is served better by learning these lessons on his own in the MCU rather than just taking after his dad. And I mean.... theres no saying this story can't still be adapted. Today's episode should prove marvel has no issues introducing characters retroactively. His dad very well could have dont it at some point but left njadaka because of shame and pride.

[Ekie]

I see where you’re coming from, I guess for me the MCU still captured the spirit of who T’Chaka is supposed to be. A man with a strong sense of honor and pride driven to do morally bad things to protect his kingdom. The MCU takes an extra step forward I can admit with the whole leaving his nephew an orphan thing lol, but I still think the character served his purpose in the story. It’s for that reason I don’t think Hunter is absolutely needed.

Sure, he would’ve bolstered the credibility of T’Chaka as a good man but despite that even general audiences could see the goodness in the character through the way he tried to speak at the UN and of course how he interacted with his son. For all his flaws I think that what little we got to see of T’Chaka conveyed that he was a a worthy man for T’Challa to take inspiration from.

So tell me what you think MCU Tchalla learned from Tchaka?

[Ekie]

Even 10 years ago, the essence of what T'Challa/black panther meant was impactful

Truely outstanding video.
This is what ppl dont understand. All black heros are not the same and have differing values to differing black men. Tchalla surely is the most powerful charcter ever creted in my opinion and its because of what he represents and who he is. Its not replicable because he was born in the civil rights movement, such a dangerous time to finally showcase a Smart, Powerful, Masculine, Competent black man to white america and have him answer to absolutely no one, not even Galactus.

Thats the character the world deserves to see

[chief12d]

So tell me what you think MCU Tchalla learned from Tchaka?

How to carry himself with honor and pride in Wakanda, probably leadership skills and how to fight. The same things, if not more, than he did in the comics considering he lived till T’Challa was a grown ass man lol. With the added caveat of him killing his own brother and leaving his nephew on the streets. It’s not like him doing that terrible thing invalidates all the years he was around to teach his son the skills needed to be a man and ruler. That’s the complexity of the character, he was fundamentally a decent human being but did some very bad things because he thought it was best for Wakanda.

[Ekie]

I mean he very clearly still inspired Tchalla. But there's a few things about white wolf's entire thing in the comics that could be seen as problematic and it also honestly is more consistent with how wakanda was portrayed to have him leave the boy tbh. Despite the fact its still definitely wrong, wakanda is an isolationist nation at first but opens itself up more later. Tchalla I think is served better by learning these lessons on his own in the MCU rather than just taking after his dad. And I mean.... theres no saying this story can't still be adapted. Today's episode should prove marvel has no issues introducing characters retroactively. His dad very well could have dont it at some point but left njadaka because of shame and pride.

I guess I just see value in the story of the Black fatherhood. I have no problem with qtchalla learning that lesson from his father and many more. That's an important statement for the black community to see. Black dysphoria would have made a great sequel don't get me wrong I just don't think it should have come fiqrst. Coogler made a good movie it just wasn't an introduction to Tchalla or Wakanda as a positive idea (The way it was designed un the 60s to be at a time of racism tearing the country apart)

[Ekie]

How to carry himself with honor and pride in Wakanda, probably leadership skills and how to fight. The same things, if not more, than he did in the comics considering he lived till T’Challa was a grown ass man lol. With the added caveat of him killing his own brother and leaving his nephew on the streets. It’s not like him doing that terrible thing invalidates all the years he was around to teach his son the skills needed to be a man and ruler. That’s the complexity of the character, he was fundamentally a decent human being but did some very bad things because he thought it was best for Wakanda.

Yeah but we didn't SEE any of that in the movie. We judt assume all that because we know better. The mass audience clearly doesnt know better if they think Black Panther is removable from black panther.

[DigiCom]

I think it's important to remember that the image of T'Chaka in T'Challa's head (in the comics AND the movies) is probably a lot more idealized then the real man.

Was T'Chaka a good man? Undoubtedly. He was a loving father and a wise king. But he was no saint. He had to make tough choices, and occasionally made poor decisions. Indeed, it was one of those decisions that led to Killmonger. The key here is that T'Challa LEARNED from his father's mistakes. Rather than trying to be the next King T'Chaka, he found a way to be King T'Challa, instead.

[Ekie]

I think it's important to remember that the image of T'Chaka in T'Challa's head (in the comics AND the movies) is probably a lot more idealized then the real man.

Was T'Chaka a good man? Undoubtedly. He was a loving father and a wise king. But he was no saint. He had to make tough choices, and occasionally made poor decisions. Indeed, it was one of those decisions that led to Killmonger. The key here is that T'Challa LEARNED from his father's mistakes. Rather than trying to be the next King T'Chaka, he found a way to be King T'Challa, instead.

Like I said, its fine for Tchalla to become his own man. But there is value in presenting a stronger presentation of family and fatherhood. We all know Tchalla see's he's his father in the comics. In the MCU Michael B Jordans dad came off more sympathetic.

[Jabare]

[Chesterfield]

I think it's important to remember that the image of T'Chaka in T'Challa's head (in the comics AND the movies) is probably a lot more idealized then the real man.

Was T'Chaka a good man? Undoubtedly. He was a loving father and a wise king. But he was no saint. He had to make tough choices, and occasionally made poor decisions. Indeed, it was one of those decisions that led to Killmonger. The key here is that T'Challa LEARNED from his father's mistakes. Rather than trying to be the next King T'Chaka, he found a way to be King T'Challa, instead.

I think T'Chaka is being judged a bit too harshly. Of course he wasn't a Saint. No one in his position as a ruler let alone ruler of the most technological advances country in the world that is African, isolationist and prevented other nations from colonising and invading it is going to be squeaky clean. Such people have the hardest decisions to make.
When you're not the one responsible to lead, govern and fulfil a purpose that's bigger than an individual it's easy to start poking holes in another's moral protocols.

N'Jobu betrayed his own people, allied himself with Klaw, killed many Wakandans in the process, lied about it and was going to kill Zuri. These are decisions he made by himself of his own free will.
We all know what happened next and one can argue if it was right or wrong but it doesn't change the fact that it was a hard decision to make. It's hard for a good man to be king. If T'Chaka could kill his own brother, leaving Erik behind comparatively speaking was a decision he would have spent less time thinking about.

In a nutshell, T'Challa doesn't have to rule the way T'Chaka did, that's not the point of leadership. He just has to be able to lead his people/country forward while making the hard decision with conviction others can't along the way and that's the ultimate lesson T'Chaka taught T'Challa.

[MindofShadow]

Is T'challa or Killmonger older in the MCU?

[king of hybrids]

At a guess, T’Chaka leaving Erik wasn’t a hard decision, but the easy-but-certain-to-backfire choice rather than admit (least of all to himself) that he had killed his brother (regardless of the reasons)

Regarding Hunter: while probably more by chance (and Hunter’s own personality) than design; Hunter would have been a pretty much tailor-made hatchetman for T’Chaka and S’Yan. 1) unquestionably loyal, 2) not in the line of succession and 3) eminently deniable/disavowable if required

[chief12d]

Yeah but we didn't SEE any of that in the movie. We judt assume all that because we know better. The mass audience clearly doesnt know better if they think Black Panther is removable from black panther.

I think the general audience got the general gist of T’Chaka’s profound impact on T’Challa. Like I said, their interactions in Civil War and T’Challa straight up saying he wasn’t ready to be without him are pretty clear statements on T’Chaka’s role in T’Challa becoming the man that he did. The mass audience could’ve had an entire movie dedicated to T’Chaka training his son to be a good person/ruler and many (if not the majority) of them would still be a against a recast. The two aren’t connected IMO.

[Ekie]

So well said. I wish Feigie actually understood these things about Tchalla.