The Avengers Appreciation 2021

[Tony Stark]

That's fine but there's also trying new things. I don't want to just read the same 2 guys over again, especially when they're the most 'tropey' heroes

What two guys is he writing over and over?

[gurkle]

Maybe it's because of Bendis they are so popular

I mean, Wanda is now one of the most popular characters in the MCU from a show that openly took inspiration from "House of M," so that's not entirely wrong.

What's puzzling is that Marvel Comics keeps doubling down on the all-star, Justice League-style approach and refuses to bring back the classic Avengers even after the MCU has proved that they can be popular. "Uncanny Avengers" was a more traditional Avengers book with a more traditional cast (Wanda, Janet, Simon, Vision, Pietro) running alongside Hickman's non-traditional book, but except for Vision, none of the classic characters have been allowed back on the main team to this day.

Edit: I forgot, Hawkeye was on Hickman's main team, but it was well known (and I think Hickman even admitted) that he was forced to use all the Avengers from the movie. Sadly, Marvel abandoned movie synergy right around the time Wanda got into the MCU.

[Saithor]

I mean, Wanda is now one of the most popular characters in the MCU from a show that openly took inspiration from "House of M," so that's not entirely wrong.

What's puzzling is that Marvel Comics keeps doubling down on the all-star, Justice League-style approach and refuses to bring back the classic Avengers even after the MCU has proved that they can be popular. "Uncanny Avengers" was a more traditional Avengers book with a more traditional cast (Wanda, Janet, Simon, Vision, Pietro) running alongside Hickman's non-traditional book, but except for Vision, none of the classic characters have been allowed back on the main team to this day.

Edit: I forgot, Hawkeye was on Hickman's main team, but it was well known (and I think Hickman even admitted) that he was forced to use all the Avengers from the movie. Sadly, Marvel abandoned movie synergy right around the time Wanda got into the MCU.

While Wandavision borrows a core idea from House of M, the scope, details, and executions are so far removed from it I wouldn’t say that Bendis’ comic gets a massive amount of credit, especially when the show treats Wanda as much more of a character than the comic does which…she feels more like a plot device than a three dimensional character. She’s technically not even the one to incite the entire thing, it’s technically Pietro.

[Frontier]

I mean, Wanda is now one of the most popular characters in the MCU from a show that openly took inspiration from "House of M," so that's not entirely wrong.

What's puzzling is that Marvel Comics keeps doubling down on the all-star, Justice League-style approach and refuses to bring back the classic Avengers even after the MCU has proved that they can be popular. "Uncanny Avengers" was a more traditional Avengers book with a more traditional cast (Wanda, Janet, Simon, Vision, Pietro) running alongside Hickman's non-traditional book, but except for Vision, none of the classic characters have been allowed back on the main team to this day.

Edit: I forgot, Hawkeye was on Hickman's main team, but it was well known (and I think Hickman even admitted) that he was forced to use all the Avengers from the movie. Sadly, Marvel abandoned movie synergy right around the time Wanda got into the MCU.

We can see now with the MCU was able to get a lot of mileage out of the classic Avengers without some of the bigger property names but I think a culmination of disinterest and some of those classic names becoming big names as a matter-of-course just filled up the roster and made it harder to fit other characters in.

Like, Aaron's all over the place and isn't the type of guy for a traditional Avengers run anymore than Hickman is. The only classic Avengers we have are because it's supposed to be an "all-star" run.

[Nomads1]

Maybe it's because of Bendis they are so popular

LOL! No, sorry, but definitely not!

While Wandavision borrows a core idea from House of M, the scope, details, and executions are so far removed from it I wouldn’t say that Bendis’ comic gets a massive amount of credit, especially when the show treats Wanda as much more of a character than the comic does which…she feels more like a plot device than a three dimensional character. She’s technically not even the one to incite the entire thing, it’s technically Pietro.

Wanda/ Vision actually borrows much more from the Steve Englehart Vision / Scarlet Witch (which I personally hated) and John Byrne's Visionquest and Darker than Scarlet than anything Bendis did (especially since he was already apeing past Avengers storys and trying to pass them as his own ideas - The Mansion had been destroyed before - Under Seige and Acts of Vengence, Wanda had gone crazy due to the loss of her children - Darker than Scarlet, and the Avengers had disbanded and reformed as a totally offbeat team before - Walt Simonson's run leading to Avengers #300. So, nothing new, just snark and a lazy use of popular characters and top tier artists). In one thing Bendis was ahead of his time. Like Marvel/Disney nowaday, he made an art of overhyping his stories and failing flat on the execution. I'll never forget his line in one of his first interviews about how in issue 5 (I think) we'd get to see the explanation of why Wolverine joins the Avengers, and that it'd make perfect sense. The explanation? WWII veteran soldier Captain America and former industrialist arms dealer Tony Stark get together and decide they want someone on the team willing to kill as often as necessary when they get too squimish to dirty their own hands. Yeah, seriously. That not only shows a total ignorance of the characters he was writing, of the spirit of the team he had in his hands, but it's also downright disrespectful to both. And Marvel pushed as hard as it could for that twisted idea of what heroism was to be it's lead book. The characters with feet of clay became made of mud. But I digress. I have to stop commenting on Bendis. It gets out of hand.

Peace

[king of hybrids]

Crazy, out of the box, ideas are only good when you have the talent to execute them well. Otherwise, they are just drivel.

Peace

Hence my hope that someone with talent will take those ideas one day and develop them. Just not someone who thinks the Avengers are uppity z-listers who ‘stole’ their prominence from more deserving IPs

The Thor & Arthur Story: The Two Worthies wasn't by Aaron it was by Christopher Ruocchio & Steve McNiven, probably why I enjoyed it.

Attachment 115927

Attachment 115928

Fair point. I do have issue with there being ancient Norse monuments about before the Saxons had even finished conquering the place, or the idea that Arthur was secretly a Thor worshipper

To say nothing of the fact that Arthur and pretty much the entire Arthurian mythos is now permanently going to be treated as a villain going forward thanks to Excalibur & Black Knight’s mini. We really don’t need more fronts in the franchise appendage measuring contents

[Frontier]

Hence my hope that someone with talent will take those ideas one day and develop them. Just not someone who thinks the Avengers are uppity z-listers who ‘stole’ their prominence from more deserving IPs

I don't think that's how Jason Aaron views the team but I've had my fill with crazy randomness.

Fair point. I do have issue with there being ancient Norse monuments about before the Saxons had even finished conquering the place, or the idea that Arthur was secretly a Thor worshipper

To say nothing of the fact that Arthur and pretty much the entire Arthurian mythos is now permanently going to be treated as a villain going forward thanks to Excalibur & Black Knight’s mini. We really don’t need more fronts in the franchise appendage measuring contents

What is it with X-Men writers and the UK?

[king of hybrids]

I don't think that's how Jason Aaron views the team but I've had my fill with crazy randomness.

Actually I meant Ewing (I did specify someone with talent, so Aaron’s excluded)

Maybe I’m paranoid, but while largely professional and undeniably one of the best writers Marvel has (which makes them continuously cancelling his books farcical) I do think he considers the Avengers’ editorial/MCU driven prominence as having held Marvel back, both by suffocating more minor titles (Defenders, Heroes for Hire etc) and the X-Men and because they've been the beneficiaries of a lot of random synergy changes/reversions

What is it with X-Men writers and the UK?

There’s a couple of reasons:
1) Claremont did it so so can we. And also that the parts of Marvel UK not caught in the rights issues tend to be ones that were intertwined with the X-books already
2) Brexit: for reasons that should be obvious, it is/was a lot easier/less of headache with upper management to make jabs at Boris Johnson/Tories/the semi-deranged “British Exceptionalism” attitude than stuff closer to HQ
3) connected to 2, there is a school of thought that the national attitude that resulted in Brexit and all the horrors of the British Empire before it are all ultimately rooted in English veneration of the Arthurian mythos and that it is an inherently corrupt and racist thing to be dissected, deconstructed and cast down wherever possible (I’m Irish, so personally I find it hilarious that Arthur & con were yet another thing that the English appropriated from a place they colonised, but I find this attitude profoundly condescending)
4) connected to 2 & 3, people are just cribbing off Gillen’s Once and Future

[Frontier]

Actually I meant Ewing (I did specify someone with talent, so Aaron’s excluded)

Maybe I’m paranoid, but while largely professional and undeniably one of the best writers Marvel has (which makes them continuously cancelling his books farcical) I do think he considers the Avengers’ editorial/MCU driven prominence as having held Marvel back, both by suffocating more minor titles (Defenders, Heroes for Hire etc) and the X-Men and because they've been the beneficiaries of a lot of random synergy changes/reversions

Oh, Ewing? Because of how he wrote The Avengers in IH? I mean, he wrote them fine in Empyre too, it just depends on the book. I can probably count on two hands the number of times The Avengers

I think Aaron has talent, it's just his sensibilities are channeled better in some titles compared to others and he doesn't work so much left unchecked. Like, as much as I disliked his Thor run and the direction he took the title, it was at least competently written. Avengers is all over the place. But he was probably more engaged with Thor than he was Avengers. Like you can tell which titles someone like Bendis cares about and which he just writes on autopilot and I get that sense from Aaron on Avengers.

There’s a couple of reasons:
1) Claremont did it so so can we. And also that the parts of Marvel UK not caught in the rights issues tend to be ones that were intertwined with the X-books already
2) Brexit: for reasons that should be obvious, it is/was a lot easier/less of headache with upper management to make jabs at Boris Johnson/Tories/the semi-deranged “British Exceptionalism” attitude than stuff closer to HQ
3) connected to 2, there is a school of thought that the national attitude that resulted in Brexit and all the horrors of the British Empire before it are all ultimately rooted in English veneration of the Arthurian mythos and that it is an inherently corrupt and racist thing to be dissected, deconstructed and cast down wherever possible (I’m Irish, so personally I find it hilarious that Arthur & con were yet another thing that the English appropriated from a place they colonised, but I find this attitude profoundly condescending)
4) connected to 2 & 3, people are just cribbing off Gillen’s Once and Future

I haven't seen people connecting Brexit from Arthurian lore, but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

I know Captain Britain fans are very critical of Chris Claremont's handling of the CB mythos.

[Tony Stark]

Here is something I didn’t think I would say, but I enjoyed this issue. Paying $9.99 for it I would hope so. I figured like others said that this would be a perfect jumping off point, but I think I will stick around for a minute. I like how the She-Hulk story ended. I absolutely loved how the Ka-Zar part ended. Also I’m curious to see what is going to happen with the Namor and Howard Stark situations. I’ll see what the next storyline does, but you better believe it’s on a short leash.

[Marvell2100]

Here is something I didn’t think I would say, but I enjoyed this issue. Paying $9.99 for it I would hope so. I figured like others said that this would be a perfect jumping off point, but I think I will stick around for a minute. I like how the She-Hulk story ended. I absolutely loved how the Ka-Zar part ended. Also I’m curious to see what is going to happen with the Namor and Howard Stark situations. I’ll see what the next storyline does, but you better believe it’s on a short leash.

Don't forget to check out Avengers Forever with the Astonishing Ant-Man aka Tony Stark.

I have a theory that this Tony is the son of the evil Howard. I know he was shot(and killed) but I think he survived somehow and became Ant-Man instead of Iron Man.

[Tony Stark]

Don't forget to check out Avengers Forever with the Astonishing Ant-Man aka Tony Stark.

I have a theory that this Tony is the son of the evil Howard. I know he was shot(and killed) but I think he survived somehow and became Ant-Man instead of Iron Man.

I didn’t forget brother. I already added Avengers Forever to my pull list.

[omegafix]

who wants a free digital copy of Avengers #50?

Avengers #50 WI6CHR28YQQ5T

[king of hybrids]

I’m not gonna lie, I’m morbidly curious as to what was wondering about in the marvel old west to justify Reno Phoenix and Starbrand Kid’s team up

[Marvell2100]

The most underrated Avengers run imo is by Bob Harras and Steve Epting. The Gatherers, The Kree, Proctor, Vision gets a new body. Some great stories and art.