As I stated before, I personally believe Namor should be played by a biracial actor. The question on the board was: Why do people see Namor as Asian? I answered with specifics from the comics, and pointed out that Namor has Asian features that has been referenced and pointed out over 80 years of comics, and this is why people can see an Asian actor in the role, not that Namor only has to be Asian, or that Asian culture was in any way a huge part of Atlantean culture, Namor may pass as Asian but he is Atlantean, he may be coded as looking Asian, but he is Atlantean. Also I stated that Namor may be white passing but that doesn't make him white because he is biracial. I personally believe due to the reading that I have done in the comics the Atlanteans are coded as POC.
No matter what my opinion is, Rev gave out a very detailed and much more factual reply to Namor being biracial and when the Roman influences were added to Namor's mythos.
The difference between Wakanda and Atlantis, Asgard, is that it is important to the story and the background of the Black Panther that all characters are African. This was very specifically done.
As for Marvel's Asgard, it is loosely based on Norse mythology, and I believe of the race the actors don't really factor into who should play who, Heimdall in the Thor movies was excellently played imo. Atlantis is fictional as well, race should not matter if the actor is well cast, and the reason I specify Namor being biracial is because he is the first biracial hero and should be played by one. It literally will not matter what the race of the Atlanteans are since they will be covered up with blue makeup, however that doesn't mean that Marvel should only cast all white people because as I said before, I believe the Atlanteans are coded as an indigenous people, Native American or Inuit. I am not trying to shoehorn in any diversity in a fictional race. Many people have stated that Yul Brynner was a great version for an idea of Namor, but perhaps Everett did not like him because as it was pointed out, he disliked the formal royal Namor that came about in the silver age. I personally believe that an actor like Momoa who could play a white (with no hint to any POC coding to the DC's Atlanteans) character then we should have no issue with Namor, who is canonically not white, being played by a biracial actor as well. That's my opinion.
"No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis
As for the larger discussion we've been having, which is very interesting in my opinion, I know most of us here are not going to agree, especially when the often sensitive and sometimes incendiary topic of race is part of it. I'm glad it hasn't gone that way in our little Namor community here.
Like I said earlier in the thread, I believe it ultimately comes down to whether you feel Namor should be a certain race in universe or whether you believe Namor (and the Atlanteans) are supposed to represent a certain race in terms of having a story to tell. (OR if you believe neither at all)
For my part, I absolutely believe Namor is a biracial character, he always has been, and the more important and interesting angle of that issue is the fact that he looks like the half of his racial makeup that he does not feel a connection to. He feels the deeper more powerful connection to the race he will never truly be accepted by. Namor does not feel human, the race is irrelevant in that sense. He knows he will never be genuinely accepted anywhere, and he feels it. It's one of the strongest aspects of his character. He is meant to be an outcast to ALL, humans and Atlanteans alike. He tries so hard to be the greatest example of what an Atlantean is, to prove worthy to his mother, his grandfather and to himself, and yet cannot help but be drawn to the world of his father. The world of the "enemy". Even his body and his powers are at odds. A sea king who can breath air and FLY just as easily as swim the deepest oceans. These are aspects that anyone can connect with, as well as make Namor very unique. (and also why I dislike Namora and Namorita)
As for whether Namor and the Atlanteans are supposed to actually represent or be stand-in's for certain real races, I feel there is a case to be made (as ImperiusWrecked has done very well) but ultimately it's very slim pickings when it comes to evidence in nearly a century of books. Namor for the most part was meant to simply look slightly strange. Strange enough to seem not quite human, but not strange enough to have you not empathize with him as the super hero. I'm not at all convinced that Namor was designed to be an asian hero because some artists over the years exaggerated certain features or called attention to them. Golden Age examples, like Namor dressing like a Japanese soldier and passing as Japanese are not all that convincing considering he's also done it in another issue where he had to change his features and posture to pass for Japanese or the fact the cover art on the very same issue in question have Japanese people drawn in a way that look nothing like Namor and are horrible racist caricatures. The Golden Age can be completely bonkers, they had no intention of making stories that would be meaningful or lasting, which is why they can't be trusted that much and aren't canon. I'm not dismissing anything, but not relying too heavily on it either.
Almond shaped eyes do not make Namor asian. Nor does his pink skin make him a white man. Although he is meant to look or pass as a white man, at least at a first glance, and this is a cause of great pain to him. "His flesh as pallidly pink as my own" he says in reference to his father in Saga of the Sub-Mariner. He does not look like his mother, he does not look like his people, those he is meant to rule and lead as an example. He knows it and they know it. Namor is utterly unique and utterly alone. He is also endlessly fascinating.
Could Namor be played by an asian man in a film? Obviously. Should he be? Should he not be? Should he only be played by someone who is biracial because he is? I don't even know how to answer those. There's really no right answer. Namor has a very distinct look, and narrowing the selection pool down to those who are only this or that makes a difficult job even more difficult. I have yet to see anyone who looks like they could play Namor in my view. Namor just doesn't look like anyone, of any race.
Last edited by Doombot; 12-11-2019 at 09:41 PM.
The same goes for Namor's voice, I have yet to find a good voice actor who can capture the idea of Namor's voice in my head should Marvel ever make a animated show that features him. I honestly believe the best way to showcase Atlantis and its characters is in animation. Honestly whether or not Namor makes it into the movies, I just hope we get some good comics out of it.
The same thing happened not too long ago (New Agents of Atlas) to Namora, she was in a full panel and flying but didn't have any ankle wings, though Namora's wings have come and gone over the years, she has been drawn with them since her return. I just don't know why the wings are always being forgotten or like in one case drawn on the wrong place, they were far too low in the Teen Jean comic.
"No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis
Marcio Takara (current artist on the Sandman comic) drew a Namor and Emma Frost commission sketch, I hope they post the fully finished art! link
"No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis
Oh my. That's goregous! His work has changed alot over the years. I bet that belongs to Pat Loika. He's a big Namor and Emma and N/E fan.
I wonder how much Takara is charging?
I know I'm old, but does gay mean something different now? Whatever it means, sign me up for it! Namor and Emma are always hot, and together they are beyond awesomely naughty. If I can't have Lady Dorma for Namor, I'll take Emma.
Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?
I hated the ankle wing placement in that Jean Grey book. Really weird.
Yeah, Namora, more than any of the other Sub-Mariners, really gets screwed by artists on the ankle wings. I don't know why, but this isn't the first time that's happened.
Speaking of Namora, here's a variant cover by Jeehyung Lee for Atlantis Attacks.
https://www.cbr.com/atlantis-attacks...iant-cold-war/
Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?
Oh this is beautiful!!! Thanks for sharing Rev.
Seriously I keep hoping we get some Namor/Emma in the future comics since she is literally the only one of Namor's old flames who is available and there's a chance they could be on page together again with Hickman, unlike Marrina where its been years and no interaction. In the recent FF comic its confirmed that Reed/Sue are soulmates so I really hope we don't get any Namor/Sue stuff at any point in the future. (I know I hate on this ship alot but I'm tired of it! I hate that Namor keeps being used for Reed/Sue drama and he needs his own love interest)
I did send an e-mail yesterday asking for prices after I saw the art and I will have to save up before I can consider commissioning, the bust of a character is priced at $200 (pencil) $350 (inked) and anything else goes higher.
"No one should ever question where my allegiance lies." - Namor of Atlantis
I will never catch up. I'm feeling very bah humbug today.
My other question is ... aren't these Sirenas located in the Pacific? Why is Atlantis attacking them? They'd have to move an army across the world. You'd think that would make SOMEONE nervous. And WTF is going on with Lemuria?
There are a few, but they only get used once or twice as set dressing and then are forgotten.
Hickman's Old Atlanteans are another case of Namor having a reason for attacking. They were one of the legendary evils that Neptune himself helped Namor's people defeat. And in another of Hickman's ambiguities, they turned out to do exactly what Namor said they would do -- start a power hungry land grab. Of course, Hickman also had 2 of the young ones join the Future Foundation and "be cute." If I ever got a chance to write Namor, I'd have those turn into ravening shark monsters when they hit puberty. Anyways, they are totally ignored / forgotten now, and we never hear of Sue taking responsibility for them anymore.
Well, it would have been helpful if Hickman or anyone followed up on it. There could have been another giant conflict, with Namor having to form alliances to combat the return of their ancient evil. It could have been epic. Instead, it was just canon fodder.
Off the top of my head, besides the Old Kings of Atlantis, there are:
Lemuria
The Aqueos (who may be erradicated)
The Faceless Ones
Mermaids
Attuma's barbarians
Men Fish
People of the Black Sea (2 different groups?)
Oh, and these ladies, for yet another plot line that went no where.
Namor the Sub-Mariner, Marvel's oldest character, will have been published for 85 years in 2024. So where's my GOOD Namor anniversary ongoing, Marvel?
I have never seen Men Fish nor Mermaids, but would live to see some spotlight on them, even if only briefly and with lots of mystery!