Wonder Woman OP??

[Ascended]

How would Superman fans feel if they took his origin, his culture, his beliefs, his side characters, his entire history, AND his powers; chewed them up, spat them back out, and told fans to except it?

That was post-Crisis.

No longer born on Krypton, no longer interested in his culture, most of the supporting cast beyond the core 3 or 4 erased, every fantastical aspect of his mythos culled, his powers cut down to a fraction of what they were......

Diana gets screwed over by DC far more than Clark does and went through a worse version of this in the 70's mod era, but Super fans had to bite this bullet as well in 86.

[WonderLight789]

It is not only ww that changes, the kents die. and they revive every 5 years, superman became a descendant of rao (god), the relationship with his son is null, superboy comes and goes, nobody knows what is real and not about him, the superman villains are not his, breiniac he's a league villain, darkseid is now more of a batman and ww villain, maxima is now a lesbian and you're close to ww, cyborg superman is from the green lanterns, lex i don't even remember the last time he was superman villain. evil forever, superman the first to fall, darkseid war, was defeated in seconds by ww, trinity war superman is poisoned and ww has to save him, in all the new 52 his role was to be in the shade without saying anything and when the villain appears superman is defeated or controlled, ww comes out almost in all Superman comics, how many of ww Superman have come out.

WW still has had more bad moments and treatment than sm. Nobody here is asking for WW to outshine sm. Just for her to be treated better in general. If it's ok for SM to do all the things he does, why shouldn't WW? She was created to be a big powerhouse too.

[NaVi]

WW still has had more bad moments and treatment than sm. Nobody here is asking for WW to outshine sm. Just for her to be treated better in general. If it's ok for SM to do all the things he does, why shouldn't WW? She was created to be a big powerhouse too.

nobody says that ww cannot be a power, because I do not know you but I have always believed that Superman is physically superior, but ww with his training and team equals him, in a confrontation between the two, the two lose because even the winner would not finish well. The problem is that many ww fans want him to keep all the advantages over Superman, but also be so strong. Can you imagine what would happen, if Superman fans started to ask, that his ability equals ww's?

[Phoenixx9]

WW still has had more bad moments and treatment than sm. Nobody here is asking for WW to outshine sm. Just for her to be treated better in general. If it's ok for SM to do all the things he does, why shouldn't WW? She was created to be a big powerhouse too.

Exactly. Wonder Woman was created as the Suprema, the Wonder Woman!

The thing I love about DC Comics is that one can have a number of different origins and still have equal-type powers.

Examples include: different cultures/origins/species or even by chemical, radiation (Ultra Boy), accidental or experimentation (Night Girl).

More examples include: Amazon (Wonder Woman, Superwoman, Nubia, Orana), Daxamite (Mon-El & Andromeda), Magic (The Shazam Family), Martian (Martian Manhunter, Ms Martian) or Kryptonian (the Super-Family, Zod, Ursa)

[SiegePerilous02]

How would Superman fans feel if they took his origin, his culture, his beliefs, his side characters, his entire history, AND his powers; chewed them up, spat them back out, and told fans to except it?

Dude, that happens to Superman on the reg quite a bit. Just because Wonder Woman is worse doesn't mean Superman doesn't get hit with this. The most notable instance is the Byrne run, which was worse for him than Perez was for Wonder Woman. He had more to lose at that point (and did) and she had more to gain (and did, at least for a little while).

This is like being told to be happy with a steaming pile of crap just because it's smaller and stinks a little less than the other. Both fandoms are justified in their complaints and don't need to be fighting each other. The Wonder Woman franchise has some deep rooted problems in it that have nothing to do with Superman being a little stronger than her.

[kjn]

What SiegePerilous02 said. This isn't a race to the bottom, where comparisons of bad stories is used to drive tensions between fans.

I want DC's editors and writers to treat all of their characters with respect, and give them strong stories suited to the characters. And I most definitely don't want fans to begrudge a character being given the opportunity to have a place in the spotlight now and then.

[Perseus]

My beef is not with the Superman fandom. Superman gets some garbage takes, I won't take that away from him (hated what Bendis did to Jon). My beef is with specifically people who feel the need to make a thread about Diana being OP when she gets some actual representation in a team book.

She didn't defeat Phantom Stranger, her gear did.

She isn't stronger than all the leaguers combined because she lifted a rock. Despite what the clearly click bait title of an article will say.

Diana is intelligent, wise, and knows a lot about ruling and leadership because she was trained in those matters as a princess, not because DC treats her like the "golden child" and wants to make everyone else dumb.

[Perseus]

Wanna know something about this whole rock thing? the writer either didn't think that amazons should have a better locking mechanism or did think and just didn't care. Like think about it.... Dooms doorway, one of the few entrances of underworld, designed to hold the worst terrors in myth... and its covered by a big stupid boulder. We could have had some epic vault like seal, like back in Perez or some high tech gate that requires a code or amazon blood to open but, nope.... its a rock.

[Ascended]

Y'know what's nice though? Diana getting treated well enough for someone to think she's OP.

[Shadowedeyes]

https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-trivia-phantom-stranger/
In 2005 story DAY OF VENGEANCE an AMPED by Magical Energies of the Multiverse!!!!!! Spectre COULDNT Kill the Phantom Stranger, but instead turned him into a mouse!!!

Its difficult to rank characters, because I dont know how powerful "Day of Vengeance (The Decreator)", "The Endless" are...

For Gods:

Trigon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Darkseid>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Zeus

Like I said NOT EVEN AMPED PHANTOM STRANGER (DAY OF VENGEANCE) could kill Phantom Stranger, because "its simply not allowed".

It should be for 2 reasons impossible for Wonder Woman:
1. Phantom Stranger should be way more powerful than Greek Gods etc. and therefore be simply able to turn it into normal ropes or so...
2. Phantom Stranger was created by Presence and also in Day of Vengeance we clearly see that he doesnt want him to be killed....We also saw that Spectre wasnt allowed to kill Darkseid



RIDICULOUS..

It has NOTHING to do with Superman Fanboys etc.

The "feat" with Phantom Stranger makes NO SENSE....

In DAY OF VENGEANCE even an AMPED SPECTRE couldnt kill PHANTOM STRANGER!!!!



1.
It doesnt matter
Phantom Stranger is a creation of PRESENCE and if you read Day of Vengeance than you see that not even AMPED SPECTRE COULDNT KILL PHANTOM STRANGER.
Spectre had to transform Phantom Stranger in a mouse!!!!!!!!!!!

2.
The Lasso is made by Greek Gods etc.
Greek Gods and not even Darkseid etc. should be able to create something which cant even touch beings empowered by the Presence

3.
In Day of Vengeance like I mentioned
https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-trivia-phantom-stranger/
Spectre had to transform PHANTOM STRANGER into a mouse
Spectre killed Darkseid, but DARKSEID was resurrected afterwards

This 2 ocasions CLEARLY showed that its PRESENCE wish that DARKSEID and PHANTOM STRANGER should exist.

In Day of Vengeance PHANTOM STRANGER was also able to compete with Spectre and Spectre turned him into a mouse.

If not even an AMPED SPECTRE cant kill Phantom Stranger than NOBODY should have a chance to do that...

1) First off, was the Spectre powered up in Days of Vengeance? I honestly don't remember that, it has been awhile since I read it. I just remember he didn't have a host at the time. Regardless, I didn't claim Phantom Stranger died, I said he lost. Wonder Woman also didn't kill him, so I don't see how his inability to die is of importance here.

2) The lasso's indestructibility far exceeds the Greek Gods, regardless of it's creation at their hands. None of the Greek Gods have broken it. Darkseid hasn't done it. In fact, the only time I can think of it breaking was during the Golden Perfect arc in Justice League, where it breaking caused truth to start to fall apart reality wide. Heck, maybe the Presence didn't let Phantom Stranger break it for that very reason.

3) Wonder Woman didn't kill Phantom Stranger.

[Masterff]

I wanna ask if the current Phantom Stranger is as strong as the old one but that doesn't matter, because what's happening here is the usual problem of DC author only knowing the lore about as much as they have read

There is no required wiki for authors to read. Writers are to learn the lore themselves, buying books themselves and learn from that, and depending on when they started, they may only have a month. When Priests was asked to make Teen Titans crossover with Titans and Deathstroke, he only had time to read the month's issue with Damian. Of course, there's also writers like Finch who refused to read lore because she wanted to make her own, and there's no requirement from DC that she had to read it.

So this writer wouldn't know about events happened long ago, or the power levels of each supernaturals. They may assume that Presence, New Gods and Greek Gods are all Gods and therefore have the same level of power.

Anyway, this is a thing that's going to keep happening.

POST CRISIS Phantom Stranger was so resistant to magic that he resisted SPECTRE,ECLIPSO and DR. FATE combined!

As Masterwitcher88 said. In current DC Perpentula created everything. So presence is not number one. The lasso is said to be literally unbreakable. So no, there is no reason to believe that stranger could break it.

Batman and Superman have done more "ridiculous" things anyway. did you create it threads about that? All the times that they were shown as the best all around and made all the jl look redundant, did you make threads about it?

It doesnt matter if the lasso is said to unbreakable-its unbreakable to the point at which a STRONGER being breaks it.

Phantom Stranger is able to break it..
POST CRISIS Phantom Stranger was able to resist the combined magic of SPECTRE,DR.FATE and ECLIPSO combined and his magic power level is BEYOND classification...

No-actually this WW feat is more ridiculous than anything what Superman,Batman etc. did...

I'm seriously considering making a respect thread for DC Ares and Zeus since a good number of people like to trash on them. I'd probably make one for Diana too, but that would take forever.

Zeus and Are are nice, BUT!

There was the encounter between Spectre and Darkseid

Darkseid fired Omega Beams at him and the Spectre KILLED him and was SHOCKED about himself.

My beef is not with the Superman fandom. Superman gets some garbage takes, I won't take that away from him (hated what Bendis did to Jon). My beef is with specifically people who feel the need to make a thread about Diana being OP when she gets some actual representation in a team book.

She didn't defeat Phantom Stranger, her gear did.

She isn't stronger than all the leaguers combined because she lifted a rock. Despite what the clearly click bait title of an article will say.

Diana is intelligent, wise, and knows a lot about ruling and leadership because she was trained in those matters as a princess, not because DC treats her like the "golden child" and wants to make everyone else dumb.

It doesnt what defeated the Phantom Stranger, its simply impossible...

In Post Crisis DC Phantom Stranger was able to resist Dr.Fate,Eclipso and Spectre together...In Day of Vengeance he was as powerful as the Spectre....

Lasso is created by Greek Gods who arent on the level of Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Presence etc. etc.

1) First off, was the Spectre powered up in Days of Vengeance? I honestly don't remember that, it has been awhile since I read it. I just remember he didn't have a host at the time. Regardless, I didn't claim Phantom Stranger died, I said he lost. Wonder Woman also didn't kill him, so I don't see how his inability to die is of importance here.

2) The lasso's indestructibility far exceeds the Greek Gods, regardless of it's creation at their hands. None of the Greek Gods have broken it. Darkseid hasn't done it. In fact, the only time I can think of it breaking was during the Golden Perfect arc in Justice League, where it breaking caused truth to start to fall apart reality wide. Heck, maybe the Presence didn't let Phantom Stranger break it for that very reason.

3) Wonder Woman didn't kill Phantom Stranger.

1. As far as I reming BOTH Phantom Stranger and Spectre was absolutely at the same level, but it wasnt allowed to kill the Phantom Stranger, so the only escape was to transform Phantom Stranger into a mouse...

2. Phantom Stranger resisted once the magic of Eclipso,Fate and Spectre together...
This implies that the Lasso is stronger than the magic of these beings together..

Spectre killed Darkseid and was shocked about what he did and Darkseid was resurrected, because a greater Force than Spectre (Presence) wanted that he lives.

This feat remains simply impossible for me, because Phantom Stranger,Presence,Elaine,Lucifer,Michael....should be untouchable even for Gods.
Its more impossible than everything that Superman,Batman etc. did together, because this is just a category which nobody should be able to compete with.

Like I said its also BAD for DC, because until now there were clear classes for me..
But if now a simple mortal (Diana) can defeat a being which is classified as superior to even the Greek Gods,New Gods etc. you can also make Robin beat Darkseid.

[WonderLight789]

POST CRISIS Phantom Stranger was so resistant to magic that he resisted SPECTRE,ECLIPSO and DR. FATE combined!



It doesnt matter if the lasso is said to unbreakable-its unbreakable to the point at which a STRONGER being breaks it.

Phantom Stranger is able to break it..
POST CRISIS Phantom Stranger was able to resist the combined magic of SPECTRE,DR.FATE and ECLIPSO combined and his magic power level is BEYOND classification...

No-actually this WW feat is more ridiculous than anything what Superman,Batman etc. did...



Zeus and Are are nice, BUT!

There was the encounter between Spectre and Darkseid

Darkseid fired Omega Beams at him and the Spectre KILLED him and was SHOCKED about himself.



It doesnt what defeated the Phantom Stranger, its simply impossible...

In Post Crisis DC Phantom Stranger was able to resist Dr.Fate,Eclipso and Spectre together...In Day of Vengeance he was as powerful as the Spectre....

Lasso is created by Greek Gods who arent on the level of Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Presence etc. etc.



1. As far as I reming BOTH Phantom Stranger and Spectre was absolutely at the same level, but it wasnt allowed to kill the Phantom Stranger, so the only escape was to transform Phantom Stranger into a mouse...

2. Phantom Stranger resisted once the magic of Eclipso,Fate and Spectre together...
This implies that the Lasso is stronger than the magic of these beings together..

Spectre killed Darkseid and was shocked about what he did and Darkseid was resurrected, because a greater Force than Spectre (Presence) wanted that he lives.

This feat remains simply impossible for me, because Phantom Stranger,Presence,Elaine,Lucifer,Michael....should be untouchable even for Gods.
Its more impossible than everything that Superman,Batman etc. did together, because this is just a category which nobody should be able to compete with.

Like I said its also BAD for DC, because until now there were clear classes for me..
But if now a simple mortal (Diana) can defeat a being which is classified as superior to even the Greek Gods,New Gods etc. you can also make Robin beat Darkseid.

Actually no. BM and SM have done more ridiculous things.

The lasso is literally unbreakable, so yeah. stranger can't break it.

Diana is not a simple mortal. And not all new gods are super powerful. And in fact, darkseid himself has a tendency to be a jobber.

[NaVi]

Actually no. BM and SM have done more ridiculous things.

The lasso is literally unbreakable, so yeah. stranger can't break it.

Diana is not a simple mortal. And not all new gods are super powerful. And in fact, darkseid himself has a tendency to be a jobber.

If we believe that the bond is indestructible, then we must believe that Superman is the most powerful hero in the world (a phrase that has accompanied a Superman, forever), the same world in which the specter is a hero. Seriously, Phantom Stranger is not only powerful, his power over magic is almost absolute, Olympic magic and almost no one in DC could have power over him, but it is normal for a hero to defeat a being far superior to him (superman new 52, He was possessed and hit Phantom Stranger and had blood). A Question As a ww fan, do you prefer ww by subduing Phantom Stranger with his lasso or talking to him?

[Perseus]

POST CRISIS Phantom Stranger was so resistant to magic that he resisted SPECTRE,ECLIPSO and DR. FATE combined!


It doesnt matter if the lasso is said to unbreakable-its unbreakable to the point at which a STRONGER being breaks it.

Phantom Stranger is able to break it..
POST CRISIS Phantom Stranger was able to resist the combined magic of SPECTRE,DR.FATE and ECLIPSO combined and his magic power level is BEYOND classification...

No-actually this WW feat is more ridiculous than anything what Superman,Batman etc. did...

Zeus and Are are nice, BUT!

There was the encounter between Spectre and Darkseid

Darkseid fired Omega Beams at him and the Spectre KILLED him and was SHOCKED about himself.


It doesnt what defeated the Phantom Stranger, its simply impossible...

In Post Crisis DC Phantom Stranger was able to resist Dr.Fate,Eclipso and Spectre together...In Day of Vengeance he was as powerful as the Spectre....

Lasso is created by Greek Gods who arent on the level of Spectre,Phantom Stranger,Presence etc. etc.


Like I said its also BAD for DC, because until now there were clear classes for me..
But if now a simple mortal (Diana) can defeat a being which is classified as superior to even the Greek Gods,New Gods etc. you can also make Robin beat Darkseid.

You really don't have an argument do you? You're just typing "impossible this, impossible that" and hoping it works some how.

Saying that the lasso working on Phantom Stranger is a feat for Diana is like saying Mjolnir summoning a massive lightning storm is a feat for Thor. She physically could not harm Stranger and needed her gear to win. Relax, she isn't suddenly omnipotent.

Diana isn't mortal.

It doesn't matter where the Greek Gods are in power the lasso is not the Greek Gods.

[Perseus]

If we believe that the bond is indestructible, then we must believe that Superman is the most powerful hero in the world (a phrase that has accompanied a Superman, forever), the same world in which the specter is a hero. Seriously, Phantom Stranger is not only powerful, his power over magic is almost absolute, Olympic magic and almost no one in DC could have power over him, but it is normal for a hero to defeat a being far superior to him (superman new 52, He was possessed and hit Phantom Stranger and had blood). A Question As a ww fan, do you prefer ww by subduing Phantom Stranger with his lasso or talking to him?

Except its not statements, its years of in canon feats. I can provide them, its every instance were Diana has tied someone up and they couldn't escape by breaking the lasso. Its not the same as saying Superman is the most powerful hero and then having SHAZAM or Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman slap him around a bit. I have a question, as someone who clearly doesn't know a lot about WW, did you know that WW tying people up in the lasso was her way of solving conflicts without more violence and then used that time to talk to them (like she did with Stranger) or do you not care?