Who Should Have Been in the 1940s Justice Society of America?

[MajorHoy]

Make it so four generations of women have been called Dinah Lance. The great grandmother was on the JSA, the great granddaughter is present day Dinah Laurel Lance, and the only one with the sonic scream...

I'd prefer they make the 1940s Black Canary an aunt of present-day Dinah's rather than a grandmother or great-grandmother. More flexibility when it comes to aging there since an "aunt" could easily be a great aunt or great, great aunt but still be referred to as just an "aunt".

When I was growing up I had an Aunt Loretta who was actually my father's aunt / my grandmother's sister, but we kids just referred to her as "aunt".

[Anodyne]

* Was there a "Black Canary" on the team in the 1940s? If so, is she any relation to the present-day Dinah Laurel Lance? When did she join the team? (In the original stories, that didn't happen until 1947, well after the end of WWII.) And did she have any sonic "Canary Cry" powers then? (In comic book stories of the past she did not have any powers, but the more recent animated movie with Wonder Woman and the JSA included a Black Canary with sonic powers during WWII.)

Here's what I remember: Dinah Drake was Black Canary in the 1940s. she eventually Married Larry Lance. Larry was killed saving his wife's life during a JLA/JSA crossover. At the end of that story, Dinah asked to be taken to Earth-1 because Earth-2 was "too full of memories--too full of Larry."

On Earth-1, Dinah was discovered to have acquired a supersonic "canary cry." The JLA speculated that it was the result of some sort of mutation Dinah had undergone during the journey from Earth-2 to Earth-1.

It was later retconned that Dinah and Larry Lance had had a daughter, also named Dinah. It was the baby who had developed an uncontrollable "canary cry," and she'd been left in a limbo-like region between Earths to prevent her cry from causing harm. To keep them from grieving, the parents' memories of their daughter had been erased. It was then revealed that, while going between Earths after her husband's death, Dinah Drake Lance had been discovered to be mortally ill. She and E-1 Superman, who was carrying her from E-2 to E-1, had found Dinah's still-unconscious daughter, now grown to adulthood. Dinah #1 chose to take her daughter's place in limbo (or wherever it was) and let her daughter go to Earth-1 in her stead. Dinah #2 now realized she'd fallen so quickly in love with Oliver Queen because she was Larry Lance's daughter, not his widow, so she wasn't mourning her husband.

After the Earths were merged in COIE, the retcon was that Dinah Laurel Lance's mother, the original Black Canary, had died off-page of cancer.

[superduperman]

Green Lantern
Flash
Dr. Fate
Hawkman
Hawkwoman
Wildcat
The Atom
Liberty Belle
Hourman
Starman
I want Spectre to be in there but I don't see how they can have him without him basically ending all their fights with just a snap of his fingers.
I feel like there should be some kind of WW of some kind. Whether it's Diana or Hipolyta.

I don't feel like we can have both a GA Black Canary and a modern day one. Since the modern day one is the one with powers, it seems like she's more important. The only way to make this work is to have them be related by at least a couple generations. Or just get rid of the GA one altogether.

[MajorHoy]

Here's what I remember: Dinah Drake was Black Canary in the 1940s. she eventually Married Larry Lance. Larry was killed saving his wife's life during a JLA/JSA crossover. At the end of the arc, Dinah asked to be taken to Earth-1 because Earth-2 had too many memories of Larry.

On Earth-1, Dinah was discovered to have acquired a "canary cry." The JLA decided she must have undergone some sort of mutation during the journey from Earth-2 to Earth-1.

It was later retconned that Dinah and Larry Lance had had a daughter, also named Dinah. It was the baby who had developed an uncontrollable "canary cry," and she'd been left in a limbo-like region between Earths to prevent her cry from causing harm. To keep them from grieving, the parents' memories of their daughter had been erased. It was then revealed that, while going between Earths, Dinah Drake Lance had been found to be mortally ill. She and E-1 Superman, who was carrying her from E-2 to E-1, had discovered Dinah's still-unconscious daughter, now grown to adulthood. Dinah #1 decided to take her daughter's place in limbo (or whatever it was) and let her daughter go to Earth-1 in her stead. Dinah-2 now realized she'd fallen so quickly in love with Oliver Queen because she wasn't Larry Lance's widow, so she wasn't mourning him.

After the Earths were merged in COIE, the retcon was that Dinah Laurel Lance's mother, the original Black Canary, had died off-page of cancer.

Actually, after CoIE, it seemed like Dinah Drake Lance (Golden Age Black Canary) was still alive at first for a little while, but did eventually die of cancer. The (revised) origins of both mother and daughter was seen in Secret Origins #50 in 1990.

Also post-CoIE, at one point daughter Dinah replaced Wonder Woman as a founding member of the JLA, so that in the revised story when the JLA first meets the JSA, . . .

from Secret Origins #50 . . .

and the original scene from 1963's Justice League of America #21:


The problems with whether there was a "Black Canary" prior to present-day Dinah Laurel Lance results from the New 52, where it seemed that the post-Flashpoint version of Black Canary did not have any costumed predecessors in her background?

[Jon Clark]

if Hippolyta was time traveling might as well make it time traveling Diana, Bruce and Clark

That'd be a good compromise Clark's world travels and Bruce's contain some adventures in the late 30's and maybe Diana having a final test involving the same. We don't get the whole run of Golden Age but the Trinity gets to have had their original impact on DC history.

[bat39]

Honestly, its difficult to say anything unless we know precisely how JSA fits into the current ''everything happened'' continuity and how their history, both Golden Age and post-Golden Age, now fits in.

The Black Canary issue is really the same one as the issue with Infinity Inc. If there's a new explanation for how old the likes of Jade and Obsidian are and when they were born in the context of DC continuity, the same could apply to Dinah Laurel Lance.

Personally, I'm kinda partial to the idea of current Dinah being the granddaughter or great-granddaughter of the Golden Age Black Canary. It expands the Black Canary mythos, such as it is, and introduces the possibility of one or two other Black Canaries. Of course, it might be simpler to just have Dinah discover that she's descended from the Black Canary and then be the first person to take on the role in several decades...I guess it depends on how much being the daughter of a Black Canary matters to her characterization and backstory.

But ultimately, it really depends on what explanations are used to account for the JSA's new history and presence in the contemporary DCU.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Amazing-Man wasn't "ret-conned" into joining the All-Star Squadron; he was introduced in the Squadron's title. The Squadron itself is a ret-con. And quite frankly, he never rose above being a C-lister there, even while still being written by his co-creator.

[MajorHoy]

Amazing-Man wasn't "ret-conned" into joining the All-Star Squadron; he was introduced in the Squadron's title. The Squadron itself is a ret-con. And quite frankly, he never rose above being a C-lister there, even while still being written by his co-creator.

Amazing Man was ret-conned into being a hero who actually existed in the DC Universe during the 1940s.

There was an Amazing Man comic book published during the late 1930s into early 1940s, but by Centaur, not DC.
see: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ciation-Thread

[Lee Stone]

Back before Crisis on Infinite Earths, there was a clear understanding of who had been a part of the "Golden Age" JSA.
But once Earth-2 / Earth-Two was gone, and the Justice Society of America turned out to be on the same Earth as the heroes of the Justice League of America, changes were made from time-to-time to what was thought to be the "history" of the JSA.

What I want to know from DC at some point is: Who was (or wasn't) a member of the 1940s Justice Society of America?
Questions about certain members include

* Was there a "Wonder Woman" on the team in the 1940s? If so, was it the present-day Diana (which Wonder Woman #750 seemed to be making possible); was it Hippolyta (the John Byrne 1990s retcon); or was it somebody else? (I have a feeling that Roy Thomas' retcon putting Miss America in that role will probably be left out.)

* Was there a "Black Canary" on the team in the 1940s? If so, is she any relation to the present-day Dinah Laurel Lance? When did she join the team? (In the original stories, that didn't happen until 1947, well after the end of WWII.) And did she have any sonic "Canary Cry" powers then? (In comic book stories of the past she did not have any powers, but the more recent animated movie with Wonder Woman and the JSA included a Black Canary with sonic powers during WWII.)

* And one retcon I'm assuming DC is keeping is how active Wildcat was in the Justice Society during the 1940s. (In previously published adventures in All-Star Comics, Wildcat only appeared twice in the group's 55 issue run.)

Since 'everything has happened' now...

Wonder Woman was in the JSA. Both Diana and Hippolyta. And so was Miss America.

Black Canary was on the team. She was the mother of the present-day Black Canary, who thought she was her mother when she joined the JLA. And she remembers crossing dimensions from Earth 2 to Earth 1.

(Yes, I'm 75% sarcastic, since the 'everything happened' is really a lazy copout.)

Wildcat speculation: Maybe he routinely destroyed case files he was involved in. Could he have been hiding a fling with Ma Hunkel from the tabloids??

[Restingvoice]

That'd be a good compromise Clark's world travels and Bruce's contain some adventures in the late 30's and maybe Diana having a final test involving the same. We don't get the whole run of Golden Age but the Trinity gets to have had their original impact on DC history.

It will also solve my pet peeve of wanting Superman to be the first superhero.
Also I believe in Infinite Frontier, Ollie and Roy also time traveled to the 40s?
Diana time traveling was also in Justice League cartoon where they have their short Steve Trevor plot and romance.

[Digifiend]

Ollie and Roy's time travel wasn't in Infinite Frontier itself, it was in the Stargirl Spring Break Special. To explain why they'd been members of the Seven Soldiers of Victory - that team later ended up time displaced, with Stripesy, Green Arrow, and Speedy being sent to at least ten years ago (before the New Teen Titans' time, as obviously Roy was still Speedy and Ollie was still clean shaven - it also has to be at least a year before Pat's son Mike is born). The JSA rescued the others later, in the 90s run.

[Adekis]

To be perfectly honest, I've always considered the All-Star Squadron to be a variation on the JSA. They have a lot of the same members and they take place in the same time period, so it seems mostly like a distinction without a meaningful enough difference.

[MajorHoy]

To be perfectly honest, I've always considered the All-Star Squadron to be a variation on the JSA. They have a lot of the same members and they take place in the same time period, so it seems mostly like a distinction without a meaningful enough difference.

The All-Star Squadron was a super-group formed at the request of President Roosevelt so that EVERY SINGLE "MYSTERY MAN" IN THE USA could work together in cooperation during the war.

The All-Star Squadron included all the members of the JSA as well as all the members of the Seven Soldiers of Victory, etc. So the JSA was only a portion of the All-Star Squadron.

From All-Star Squadron #3:


Saying the All-Star Squadron is "a variation on the JSA" is like saying all DC comic books are a "variation" of Batman.

[Nomads1]

The All-Star Squadron was a super-group formed at the request of President Roosevelt so that EVERY SINGLE "MYSTERY MAN" IN THE USA could work together in cooperation during the war.

The All-Star Squadron included all the members of the JSA as well as all the members of the Seven Soldiers of Victory, etc. So the JSA was only a portion of the All-Star Squadron.

From All-Star Squadron #3:


Saying the All-Star Squadron is "a variation on the JSA" is like saying all DC comic books are a "variation" of Batman.

I loved so much this book.

Peace

[Digifiend]

The All-Star Squadron was a super-group formed at the request of President Roosevelt so that EVERY SINGLE "MYSTERY MAN" IN THE USA could work together in cooperation during the war.

The All-Star Squadron included all the members of the JSA as well as all the members of the Seven Soldiers of Victory, etc. So the JSA was only a portion of the All-Star Squadron.

From All-Star Squadron #3:


Saying the All-Star Squadron is "a variation on the JSA" is like saying all DC comic books are a "variation" of Batman.

lol at Clark pointing out that the initials spell ASS!