Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

so I was reluctant to say this here because I knew from this I would certainly be called all types of deprecating things but i figured this needed to be said despite this. BP and him doing well or not well isnt tied to Coates. It's honestly just a sign of the market as comic books all around are not doing that hot. Also this has happened before. It occurred with Hudlin which a lot of you here swear by but his original run was relaunched and it ended suffering a similar fate:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-mon...february-2009/

The much-hyped relaunch of BLACK PANTHER, trailed with plenty of house ads, see the expected jump in sales. But BLACK PANTHER has done better than this in the past – this number is roughly on a par with its CIVIL WAR tie-ins from a couple of years ago. This opening arc is a Dark Reign tie-in, incidentally.

The pattern with this book, under Reginald Hudlin’s authorship, seems to be that it does quite well so long as it’s tying in to major crossovers, but struggles a bit when left to its own devices. I’m not convinced it’ll be any different this time, but you never know.

Well we do know how that ended for hudlin. The point being is I know a lot of you are happy about these numbers but I suspect even if you get the writers you want and the stories you want this tale would still end similarly because it's not the writing or stories that is the problem: it's the market. I would caution being excited about these numbers and truly seek to understand why BP solos cant sustain itself.

Honestly I think the BP book is doing about as well as marvel would expect it to do... which is why I'm not super worried about any sort of creative team shift. As long as it stays above 20k I doubt there's any risk of cancellation or creative team shift. And even if it dropped, there's a chance there wouldn't be because from what I understand Coates does well with online sales and trade.

Point being, I suspect from marvels perspective everything is fine. I think that's why they were fine giving him Captain America. You don't give a flagship title to a writer you are worried can't sell a book.

[butterflykyss]

Honestly I think the BP book is doing about as well as marvel would expect it to do... which is why I'm not super worried about any sort of creative team shift. As long as it stays above 20k I doubt there's any risk of cancellation or creative team shift. And even if it dropped, there's a chance there wouldn't be because from what I understand Coates does well with online sales and trade.

Point being, I suspect from marvels perspective everything is fine. I think that's why they were fine giving him Captain America. You don't give a flagship title to a writer you are worried can't sell a book.

good point and agreed. above 20k it will b fine

[Cville]

Since we're talking about sales, CBR did their analysis.

https://www.cbr.com/mayo-report-comi...18-analysis/2/

[skyvolt2000]

The point being is I know a lot of you are happy about these numbers but I suspect even if you get the writers you want and the stories you want this tale would still end similarly because it's not the writing or stories that is the problem: it's the market. I would caution being excited about these numbers and truly seek to understand why BP solos cant sustain itself.

Black Panther has a BILLION DOLLAR MOVIE under his belt.

His trades DOMINATED sells charts especially on Amazon where every single book that had him was top 150 in sells.
His days of no solo is over. Especially when Carol Danvers can get shot after shot after shot after shot.

[MindofShadow]

Barring something catastrophic, Black Panther is now in the same category as say... Punisher in that he is always going to have a solo forever. Likely in a half a tier ahead of Punisher, considering you can actually use BP in team books and events.

He has 100% graduated out of that "Moon Knight" category where he is going to consistently get shots at ongoings but they may not last very long.

And unlike others near his "tier," he has the potential to be a bigger money producer than the rest. Black Panther, as a franchise, is much more valuable than say... Daredevil.

Whatever tier you want to put that in, whatever. But, he has a long history at marvel + over 200 issues + an over 2 year sustained run well above cancellation + multiple spin off attempts + outside comic reasons to keep a book always on the shelves such as merch sales, trade sales, AND social media pressure.

The "wHy CaNt SaLeS sUsTaIn" argument died years ago and is borderline hatererade at this point. We are past that point, we should now be asking, "why doesn't the title sell MORE?" Remember, it was selling as much as Old Man Logan and Deadpool (in the 50+ range) to around issue 7 or 8 before people started abandoning ship at an alarming rate until it got in the 20's.

[XPac]

Black Panther has a BILLION DOLLAR MOVIE under his belt.

His trades DOMINATED sells charts especially on Amazon where every single book that had him was top 150 in sells.
His days of no solo is over. Especially when Carol Danvers can get shot after shot after shot after shot.

Yeah, even if he wasn't selling marvel at this point would likely continue to publish a BP book. He's a billion dollar franchise, so him having a book is pretty much a given at this point. I won't say how it sells is moot, but at this point it's almost secondary to everything else anyways.

[Ezyo1000]

Black Panther has had 200 comics.

Vol 3 ran for 60+ issues. With no tie ins and being ignored by the entire comic universe much to Priest's chagrin.

Vol 4 and 5 ran over a combined 50+ issues

They stripped a character of everything, threw him into hells kitchen, and still did 15 ish issues.... which is longer than a lot of "popular" characters *coughcoughcoughcoughahem* longest runs.


One thing to note about T'challa's sales is that:

a) he is black. Which put him behind the 8 ball for decades. Just ask Don.

b) he has never had any support from Marvel before Hickman New Avengers run. He never got A list writers. He never got to play in the "big" events until Hudlin forced him in.... and even then, the main event titles ignored him. T'challa runs a super country with tech beyond everyone else and yet that never effects a single thing around the Marvel Universe? How? What ist he coolest thing T'challa has done in an Avengers book? Punch out Skulls Jaw and..... ???? There were no toys, no tshirts, no merch whatsoever.

c) Hickman is the first time a big writer made him "important" in a main book. Despite some of his unpopular decisions regarding the mythos, the panel time in that book and then SW was invaluable for the franchise. T'challa was important for 5 years and then that spring boarded into his solo (+ CW movie and the accompanying merch and publicity explosion) that has sold very well.


This "solo can't sustain" stuff is frankly crap right now and outdated as hell. Black Panther just had an ANNOUNCED MINI that stayed in the 18000+ range... which is above cancellation these days. The "anything below 25 or 20 is cancellation zone!" hasn't been true for a couple years now. under 18000 it gets a little shady but there have been many titles now that survive in the 16000-18000 range.

Marvel is using gimmicks to boost sales of Black Panther... just like every other franchise they care about! Black Pantheri s just finally getting to benefit from the same crap that Marvel has pulled with its other "big" titles for years now. Hell, even with these "gimmicks"... Panther hasn't been able to tie into events AT ALL. No CWII tie ins, no Pleasant Hill, no SE, no Infinity Stone thing. It has been self contained.

I would also like to point out, that BP 172, the end of the run and before the relaunch... Panther outsold Deadpool, Miles, All NEw Wolverine, Dr. Strange, Moon Knight, Punisher, and Incredible Hulk. Rise of the Black Panther, an ANNOUNCED MINI WHICH KILLS SALES, in the same month, outsold Cable, Spider-Gwen, Rogue/Gambit, Champions, and Ms Marvel.


I don't like Coates run content wise. I won't deny it hasn't been selling well and is 100% sustainable right now. The thing is, this isn't just due to Coates like some people like to hang on... it is because Marvel is finally treating the franchise like a property that can sell for once. I'd be really curious what BP could sell without such a controversial writer who can't get hardcores to buy in completely and due to his politcal leanings, pushes away the core comic base a bit just because of his name. I mean, ****, Rise, with a neophyte journalist as a writer, sold 18K plus despite being announced as a mini... all because he didn't write T'challa like a bitch. What could that same "style" accomplish with Marvel's full power behind it?

If Evans was announced as the main bp writer and had marvels full support, BP would be sitting at 40-50k consistently. The fact his known mini stayed about 18k+ and stabilized fast whole Coates spin offs crashed and burned quickly, and he managed to get a slight bump on Issue 4 without a gimmick.

Evans and Redjack for sure, would have 40k+ - 50k monthly titles because that's where o feel T'Challa sits at

[Dboi654]

So a marvel studios movie got moved from July 20th 2021 to February 12th 2021. Some people are claiming that it might be Black Panther 2.

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/s...36581594632200

[MindofShadow]

So a marvel studios movie got moved from July 30th 2021 to February 12th 2021. Some people are claiming that it might be Black Panther 2.

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/s...36581594632200

That would make a ton of sense.

IF you were wildly successful in February, I don't know why you would move a movie into the summer gauntlet.

[Dboi654]

That would make a ton of sense.

IF you were wildly successful in February, I don't know why you would move a movie into the summer gauntlet.

I guess if it worked the first time then why change it the second time around.

[robreedwrites]

So a marvel studios movie got moved from July 20th 2021 to February 12th 2021. Some people are claiming that it might be Black Panther 2.

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/s...36581594632200

That'd be my guess. To my knowledge, it also fits Coogler's timeline, assuming he's going from Wrong Answer in late 2018/early 2019 to BP 2 in late 2019/early 2020.

[Dboi654]

That'd be my guess. To my knowledge, it also fits Coogler's timeline, assuming he's going from Wrong Answer in late 2018/early 2019 to BP 2 in late 2019/early 2020.

Hope it wont affect his creativity due to exhaustion as next movie has to be top notch

[MindofShadow]

I don't know why anyone would doubt the dude at this point. At least wait until he makes a bad movie (it is inevitable) before worrying about it.

And, from a quick wiki search, he didn't write Wrong Answer, just directing/producing

[dkrook]

Black Panther has a BILLION DOLLAR MOVIE under his belt.

His trades DOMINATED sells charts especially on Amazon where every single book that had him was top 150 in sells.
His days of no solo is over. Especially when Carol Danvers can get shot after shot after shot after shot.

Lol...lol.... Don't forget Moon Knight is the Wolverine of comics! Somehow he will always come back.

[Mr MajestiK]

Black Panther has had 200 comics.

Vol 3 ran for 60+ issues. With no tie ins and being ignored by the entire comic universe much to Priest's chagrin.

Vol 4 and 5 ran over a combined 50+ issues

They stripped a character of everything, threw him into hells kitchen, and still did 15 ish issues.... which is longer than a lot of "popular" characters *coughcoughcoughcoughahem* longest runs.


One thing to note about T'challa's sales is that:

a) he is black. Which put him behind the 8 ball for decades. Just ask Don.

b) he has never had any support from Marvel before Hickman New Avengers run. He never got A list writers. He never got to play in the "big" events until Hudlin forced him in.... and even then, the main event titles ignored him. T'challa runs a super country with tech beyond everyone else and yet that never effects a single thing around the Marvel Universe? How? What ist he coolest thing T'challa has done in an Avengers book? Punch out Skulls Jaw and..... ???? There were no toys, no tshirts, no merch whatsoever.

c) Hickman is the first time a big writer made him "important" in a main book. Despite some of his unpopular decisions regarding the mythos, the panel time in that book and then SW was invaluable for the franchise. T'challa was important for 5 years and then that spring boarded into his solo (+ CW movie and the accompanying merch and publicity explosion) that has sold very well.


This "solo can't sustain" stuff is frankly crap right now and outdated as hell. Black Panther just had an ANNOUNCED MINI that stayed in the 18000+ range... which is above cancellation these days. The "anything below 25 or 20 is cancellation zone!" hasn't been true for a couple years now. under 18000 it gets a little shady but there have been many titles now that survive in the 16000-18000 range.

Marvel is using gimmicks to boost sales of Black Panther... just like every other franchise they care about! Black Pantheri s just finally getting to benefit from the same crap that Marvel has pulled with its other "big" titles for years now. Hell, even with these "gimmicks"... Panther hasn't been able to tie into events AT ALL. No CWII tie ins, no Pleasant Hill, no SE, no Infinity Stone thing. It has been self contained.

I would also like to point out, that BP 172, the end of the run and before the relaunch... Panther outsold Deadpool, Miles, All NEw Wolverine, Dr. Strange, Moon Knight, Punisher, and Incredible Hulk. Rise of the Black Panther, an ANNOUNCED MINI WHICH KILLS SALES, in the same month, outsold Cable, Spider-Gwen, Rogue/Gambit, Champions, and Ms Marvel.


I don't like Coates run content wise. I won't deny it hasn't been selling well and is 100% sustainable right now. The thing is, this isn't just due to Coates like some people like to hang on... it is because Marvel is finally treating the franchise like a property that can sell for once. I'd be really curious what BP could sell without such a controversial writer who can't get hardcores to buy in completely and due to his politcal leanings, pushes away the core comic base a bit just because of his name. I mean, ****, Rise, with a neophyte journalist as a writer, sold 18K plus despite being announced as a mini... all because he didn't write T'challa like a bitch. What could that same "style" accomplish with Marvel's full power behind it?

I'm still amazed that someone would even seek to cast aspersions on BP sales at this point?

Makes zero sense to me.