The God of War vs SuperDoom aka Superman/Wonder Woman #11

[Dr. Hurt]

Thanks for finding the interview and posting it!
I understand it a bit better now, although her power isnt a nuclear bomb, or some dark magic, or a machine that spies on the entire world (Person of Interest tv show), it's merely a boost in speed and strength (and not even through drugs or something, it's in her nature). So while i would understand it in these situations, here it's more like WW not lifting 100 tons but 80 because those 20 extra tons will make her lose herself.

[DochaDocha]

Thanks for reminding me about the previous issue that explained why she might not want to remove the bracers. I only vaguely recollected it.

However, I remembered not being all that satisfied with the explanation, and even now that I got a full refresher, I still don't find the explanation all that appealing. It seems too, I don't know, "convenient"? That is, the way I interpret the character, I feel like WW wouldn't use something to deny some aspect of herself. She would learn to conquer all elements of herself. God mode isn't the Doomsday infection that's eating at her. It might not be who she strives to be, but like it or not, she was born that way. It's very much who she is. There's some aspect of wearing the bracers to prevent her going into God Mode that is against the idea of self-acceptance.

Conceptually, I think God Mode is pretty interesting, but I think it kind of paints the character into a corner. I probably support an idea that creatively finds a way to write out God Mode so that it doesn't lurk in the background anymore.

[Silvanus]

I understand it a bit better now, although her power isnt a nuclear bomb, or some dark magic, or a machine that spies on the entire world (Person of Interest tv show), it's merely a boost in speed and strength (and not even through drugs or something, it's in her nature). So while i would understand it in these situations, here it's more like WW not lifting 100 tons but 80 because those 20 extra tons will make her lose herself.

The concept of gode mode has potential, though for sure, it needs more development, at some point. Azz is running out of time to develop it, but I think it's starting to look like Soule will handle it.

Maybe he'll show that it's not "merely a boost in speed and strength"--because I don't see how we know that there isn't more to it. Great physical strength is what we've seen when she has used god mode so far, but it could be the tip of the iceberg, especially now that she's War. Look at the telepathic power and affinity for soldiers she shows in SM/WW 8; what if god mode poses the risk that she won't be able to take over soldiers' minds, perhaps all over the world at once?

But even if the power itself is purely physical, the source of the power is similar to "some dark magic," as you put it; it's a supernatural, godly inheritance that "doesn't always flow right in the blood," according to Lennox (in issue 15). Diana's brother Milan calls his inheritance a curse, for example, and most of her other siblings seem morally and/or psychologically messed up in one way or another. So Azz and/or Soule could clarify that when she taps into that power source she's also tapping into a much less human and less moral part of herself--one that would be (metaphorically speaking) more like a storm raging out of control, as Ares suggests in issue 23. So maybe when she uses it she risks losing her humanity altogether, which is apparently what happens in the possible future we'll see in September. Of course, he could be giving us that "possible future" in order to set up a present-day story about she avoids it by learning to control her godly powers.

One thing that would help in developing the whole god mode concept is showing how Diana first became convinced of the need to keep her power cuffed up. Did something traumatic happen? Did she go on a rampage and accidentally hurt people? That could help explain a lot--not only why she feels she needs the cuffs, but also maybe why Aleka is so wary of her.

[Black Angel]

Diana going full god mode on Kal JUST GOT REAL. This should be epic down right legendary maybe some fans will stop complaining about her previous bouts with doomsday after this (doubt it).

[Dr. Hurt]

The concept of gode mode has potential, though for sure, it needs more development, at some point. Azz is running out of time to develop it, but I think it's starting to look like Soule will handle it.

Maybe he'll show that it's not "merely a boost in speed and strength"--because I don't see how we know that there isn't more to it. Great physical strength is what we've seen when she has used god mode so far, but it could be the tip of the iceberg, especially now that she's War. Look at the telepathic power and affinity for soldiers she shows in SM/WW 8; what if god mode poses the risk that she won't be able to take over soldiers' minds, perhaps all over the world at once?

But even if the power itself is purely physical, the source of the power is similar to "some dark magic," as you put it; it's a supernatural, godly inheritance that "doesn't always flow right in the blood," according to Lennox (in issue 15). Diana's brother Milan calls his inheritance a curse, for example, and most of her other siblings seem morally and/or psychologically messed up in one way or another. So Azz and/or Soule could clarify that when she taps into that power source she's also tapping into a much less human and less moral part of herself--one that would be (metaphorically speaking) more like a storm raging out of control, as Ares suggests in issue 23. So maybe when she uses it she risks losing her humanity altogether, which is apparently what happens in the possible future we'll see in September. Of course, he could be giving us that "possible future" in order to set up a present-day story about she avoids it by learning to control her godly powers.

One thing that would help in developing the whole god mode concept is showing how Diana first became convinced of the need to keep her power cuffed up. Did something traumatic happen? Did she go on a rampage and accidentally hurt people? That could help explain a lot--not only why she feels she needs the cuffs, but also maybe why Aleka is so wary of her.

Good post mate!

You make some good points and the bracelets make more sense now. I would have liked more information from Azzarello though.

[Auguste Dupin]

Thanks for reminding me about the previous issue that explained why she might not want to remove the bracers. I only vaguely recollected it.

However, I remembered not being all that satisfied with the explanation, and even now that I got a full refresher, I still don't find the explanation all that appealing. It seems too, I don't know, "convenient"? That is, the way I interpret the character, I feel like WW wouldn't use something to deny some aspect of herself. She would learn to conquer all elements of herself. God mode isn't the Doomsday infection that's eating at her. It might not be who she strives to be, but like it or not, she was born that way. It's very much who she is. There's some aspect of wearing the bracers to prevent her going into God Mode that is against the idea of self-acceptance.

Conceptually, I think God Mode is pretty interesting, but I think it kind of paints the character into a corner. I probably support an idea that creatively finds a way to write out God Mode so that it doesn't lurk in the background anymore.

You make me thing of something.
I dunno if it's just me or if there's actually something there, but I'm starting to think there's a bit of a theme about losing oneself going on in this crossover.
I mean, we have Superman turning into Doomsday, and becoming a mindless brute with no control of his actions.
We have Lois being possessed by Brainiac, and becoming a subvedient slave to a higher power (when, you know, she's usually the opposite of that).
Apparently, we also have Red Lantern Supergirl involved, who is letting her rage at her situation take over. It has happened before the crossover, but it seems said cross will cause her to refute her Red Lantern connections.
And now we have Diana using her God Mode to stop Superdoomsday, and we are arguing about the side effects of said God Mode on her.
Again, maybe it's just me. But this is starting to be a lot of characters who become something they're afraid of becoming to be a coincidence.

[Superlad93]

Yes, I too think the 'anger' doesn't really depend on god mode...maybe it amplifies it, but it is not the cause.
Anyway...between when she used god mode in issue 12 and when she used it in issue 23 there's a difference.

In issue 12 before taking off her bracelets she was calm, and then:
Also...to me it doesn't seem she lost against the First Born because she was less powerful... From what you can say she lost because she was less strong by a noticeable bit?
What the First Born did was make her crash against the floor. No real context of strength. I have the impression she 'lost' because something else. Because she let her anger dominates her.

And I have this impression because of two things.

First from what War said about two storms clashing against each other with an unpredictable outcome. He didn't say that one of the storm could have lost because it was less powerful than the other, he just said that when two powerful storm fight against each other the outcome is unpredictable (aka when you fight just with power and not with skills, letting rage dominates you, or at least that's how I read it).

Second, there's the dialogue with the First Born.



From what Wonder Woman says it is clear to me she was lost in her rage, and then the First Born points that out to her, she hesitates (it's the First Born who says so) and so she 'lost'.

Well...not really... she crashed against the floor, but then she stood up again. She wasn't really defeated, only she realized that by losing herself in her rage, she couldn't win, so she decided it was "better if she tried to be who she aspires to be".

I doubt War was just talking about power if at all when he said "two storms". It sounds more like he was talking about hate. First Born's hate and WW's. There is guidance for it. It's just to pure forces of base instinct going at it. War wants her to be more than that. More than just hate. So I maintain that she just lost cuz it wasn't enough.

[Superlad93]

I talked about everything else but not about the cover xD It's awesome!

Anyway.
I don't understand...

Didn't Superman died when he first fought the 'baby version of Doomsday'? We always talk about how Diana lost in issue 2, but never of how he lost against the 'larva' too during his first fight <.<




About Superman being in the 'larva stage'. Maybe he is not already. After all he inhaled Doomsday's poison, and then there's this, from the preview of Batman/Superman #11:

It seems he already affected Krypto just by staying near him...so maybe Superman is not in his 'larva stage' (if he will evolve just as Doomsday) anymore.
Actually the way he will 'evolve' could be different from Doomsday's, though.

1) due to Krypto having the best senses in the whole world he could have just inhaled a bit of the stuff that was on Superman from his fight. Lex made a point to talk about it still being on Superman in #31 where he meets up with Krypto. Just look at how he reacts to John Henry.

or 2) this could still be Superman's larva stage. Who's to say the virus doesn't just improve as it goes from strong host to host?

3) Superman already stated that he'll soon be getting stronger and the toxins will come in SM/WW but if he already had them on full blast then why wasn't Wonder Woman, Batman, or Cat effected. All Superman had when he saw Krypto were slight changes in comparison to when he saw Wonder Woman

Option 1 makes the most sense given the facts of option 3 and what was shown in issue 31 of Action and 8 of SM/WW

[Superlad93]

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[Superlad93]

Now that I think about it, it's a bit hypocritical for her to get on Superman about liking Clark time. Clark is basically his limiters to his "god mode" in a way. Such common ground wasn't found by her? Odd.

[BlackFeath]

I doubt War was just talking about power if at all when he said "two storms". It sounds more like he was talking about hate. First Born's hate and WW's. There is guidance for it. It's just to pure forces of base instinct going at it. War wants her to be more than that. More than just hate. So I maintain that she just lost cuz it wasn't enough.

Well...at this point it makes more sense she lost against the god of hate because she was fighting with hate. After all everytime, even when he fought against Apollo, the First Born said that hate made him stronger.

But really...she didn't lose. She decided not to continue to use her power like that realizing she was making a mistake, a mistake she had not seen before because she was lost in rage and in hate, because she was losing herself, as War said.

[BlackFeath]

Now that I think about it, it's a bit hypocritical for her to get on Superman about liking Clark time. Clark is basically his limiters to his "god mode" in a way. Such common ground wasn't found by her? Odd.

Well...I see there could be some common ground, but at the same time it is someway different too.
Clark when he is not in his Superman's costume, doesn't suppress part of his power, doesn't become weaker.
And not using her full powers doesn't mean she has another identity, also because, it is not like she uses god mode in battle when she is Wonder Woman, if not in some extraordinary situations.
Her keeping in check her god mode is more similar to him not using always all his power, to me, than to him having his Clark Kent's identity.
In that sense her god mode seems similar to what happened to him after Apollo charged him, even visually xD

Anyway...while in the other books she seems happy about being a 'goddess', she calls herself like that, ecc... from her own book it seems she has not accepted yet that part of herself. Maybe she even fears she could lose herself by doing that, by relying too much on her power, abusing it, she fears that she could maybe lose her 'humanity' (in that I can see a similar situations with Clark).

In someways, so, she negates a part of herself...but that's a part of herself she has always suppressed...that she has not accepted yet, and that maybe she even would have liked not to have.
Clark Kent instead is a part of Superman, a part that existed even before he became Superman. But he is not just Clark, and Superman is not a part of himself he doesn't like. That's what she said to him. That she saw how he enjoyed flying, how he enjoyed be Superman.

What she didn't understand is that acting like Clark makes him feel more human.
In that sense it is similar to her not wanting to act like a 'god' because she wants still to be herself, be human.
So they want both to feel 'human'. The way they act to feel like that, though, is different, and also the meaning they give to 'human'.

[brettc1]

Wonder Woman 31 sheds more light on Diana's views on Z-daddy mode. To her, it is a diminishment more than an enhancement.

Or to put it another way, it's more important to her to play her alignment than getting bonuses on to-hit and damage rolls.

[Vworp Vworp]

This makes me wonder if Soule has kind of been tapped to be the guy to flesh out Diana's features that Azz has added. This may even support the possibility that Soule may yet be Diana's next writer once Azz leaves.

Here's hoping!

Hoping that Soule's personality-free, excruciatingly bland, Stepford Diana becomes the star of her own book?

Why would you want that? Why would anyone want that?

Seriously, I'd almost want a bad characterisation of Diana over Soule's utterly generic Wonder Woman. At least, with a bad characterisation, there's still something to feel about the character, even if those feelings are wholly negative. But Diana as the empty shell Soule writes her as... That's so much worse.

[Vanguard-01]

Hoping that Soule's personality-free, excruciatingly bland, Stepford Diana becomes the star of her own book?

Why would you want that? Why would anyone want that?

Seriously, I'd almost want a bad characterisation of Diana over Soule's utterly generic Wonder Woman. At least, with a bad characterisation, there's still something to feel about the character, even if those feelings are wholly negative. But Diana as the empty shell Soule writes her as... That's so much worse.

I completely disagree with everything you just said.

Your post did nothing to change my opinion that Soule is writing a damn good Diana who is not remotely generic, bland, or Stepfordian in any way.