Speaking only for myself here, it's not 'cognitive dissonance' I'm feeling about this storyline, it's simple disgust and disappointment at this point. Putting characters into a situation where they have no alternative but to become mass murderers - simply because the writer has not yet revealed the alternative - is quite off-putting to me as a reader. In terms of overall pacing of this story, this moment feels like we've reached the 3rd act-it's always darkest before the dawn-sort of moment, but this is when your protagonists should get their sh*t together and find the right solution to the problem, not go for the seemingly obvious (but also incorrect) choice - which in this case is to become mass murderers. I've stuck with this story this long because I expected this group to be smart enough to figure out how not to do what we see them doing here. I don't mind seeing heroes make mistakes and do really stupid things that they will later regret. That's makes for interesting character development. But I personally do mind when this is pushed to the point of characters becoming murderers. Murder crosses a line for me. It's too extreme and too bleak for my personal tolerance in what I will read. I have other things that I can spend my money on.
Live Faust, Die Jung.
The Dyson Sphere is only a weapon. It's clearly stated at least two times in the books, the first time Tony shows it to Reed and when he talks with Bruce Banner in a recent Avengers issue. It's also implied when Tony brings Banner on the Sphere in an old issue. It's not 8% complete but 0.008% and has only enough energy to power a Moon not to host/sustain human population.
When Tony shows it to Reed (and maybe Tchalla) he says "I tought if I've had to go back to the weapon business I could very well go exotic". When Banner discovers the Incursions and talk to Tony he says "it was clear by the design you don't intended to finish it, you are back to the weapon business, aren't you?".
Well both the Dyson Sphere and the Rogue Planet are weapons so it wouldn't be a different solution than use the antimatter bomb.
You shouldn't read this serie in isolation. In the context of Hickman's story Avengers is the heroic book and NA the anti heroic one.
While indie writers should have no understading of heroism it's something so senseless I don't even want to discuss.
You should work on your metaphors Cutting of your own arms by istinct while stuck under a boulder has nothing in common with triggering the pull of a bomb that will kill billions of lives in cold blood due to a phenomen you discovered and studied for weeks.
As I said to another poster, this story is actually shared between two books, Avengers (the heroic one, with Cap representing life and so on) and New Avengers, the anti heroic one with Stark representing Death, with the heroes caught in an unsolvable situation making the anti heroic choices.
Last edited by Joe Acro; 07-25-2014 at 02:53 PM. Reason: Merged
Actually it would not be so difficult. Ex Nihilo not only terraformed Mars where he currently lives but, in Infinity, provided the means for sustaining billions and billions of survivors. He and the others Ex Nihili were also shown able to rejuvenate whole planets.
The sociological issues of how humans would adapt to another planet I think is meaningless when the choice is between killing 8 billions people of an alternative Earth or have 8 billions people of Earth 616 have to adapt to life on a new planet. At that point you find yoursel routinely killing billions of people not to save universes or lifes but just to keep your planet from being destroyed.
I also think this plan is already in place. In an old issue Reed meet Tony that says him they are not being proactive enough and need other solutions. They go visit someone (it's not said who is supposed to be) to give him a task. When they come back they estimate this someone has around three months to complete his task before an Incursion they won't be able to stop will occur (statistically speaking). Tony calls that solution their "worst case scenario" and I think we can imply the worst case scenario is Earth destruction and that someone probably Ex Nihilo that was given the task to create a place where humans could live.
Actually Strange was ready and was going to use the Blood Bible in the issue where they find Galactus already destroyng the alternative Earth and they don't need to do nothing (except capturing Terrax).
A little perspective people, we speak of a group of established Earthers finding a 3rd option in solving a multiversal problem..
I know those men are as close to what are the smartest and most resourceful men of Earth as it can gets, but :
1. They aren't the top dogs in their own galaxy.
2. Let alone their own universe.
3. Let alone an infinity number or universes.
If they seemingly find themselves in an impossible position with only bad choices left at their disposal, then good.
They SHOULD be.
They SHOULD feel completely out of their depth here.
They SHOULD feel desperate and DO desperate things.
They SHOULD be unable to cope with the scale of the task.
Some of you guys acting like the Illuminati are so strong, and smart and heroic that they SHOULD be coming on top of what is nothing short but a *godlike* crisis like this one is a tad bit immature and childish.
Truth is, they shouldn't.
The likes of Celestials, Captain Universe and over cosmic being such as these SHOULD be the one trying to handle this crisis, because this is the level they are casually operating: universal level.
The Illuminati struggling here IS both normal and expected.
Again, I feel likes there's this common belief that the Illuminati are the smartest being out there, in a galaxy filled of star-spanning civilizations, cosmical beings and extra-dimensional visitors smh...
They are not. They are out of their depth. They are struggling. They make bad choices as a result.
That makes them human, relatable.
That makes this story really interesting.
Exciting even: how will they come back from this ?
How will they overcome this impossible equation ?
"The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."
"Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
"No justice, no peace."
The psychological and sociological issues were about transporting the population of Earth to the Dyson sphere. If you take, for instance, a Spanish sheep herder, and place him on a Dyson sphere, he's going to suffer a great deal of cognitive dissonance. Multiply that by 7 billion. How many won't be able to adapt? The history of humanity would not lead anyone to think this would be a viable solution.
A new planet, one which was Earth-like and suited for humanity, would be a better choice. It's something Hickman should address at some point as to why the Illuminati have not, that we know, considered this. Although I still say, neither BP or Namor would go for that option. Rounding up and transporting those 7 billion would still seem to be a monumental task, not to mention you couldn't just plunk them down in an alien wilderness and expect them to survive.
The Ex Nihilo theory is interesting. Your theory offers a partial solution from a character we have seen in-story. My only problem, I suppose, is that we haven't seen Ex Nihilo since Infinity. Last we saw he and the others, they were fixing worlds which were laid waste during the Builder War. I dunno that the Illuminati know how to contact him. Did any of them actually go into deep space during the conflict?
"Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing."-
Benjamin Franklin
So I guess its settled than new readers prefer Illuminati being as anti heroic as humanly possible and taking the easy way out without even TRYING to create a third option while the older readers prefer them to at least "TRY" to create a third option.
You'll notice I empathized Try. I'm not asking for them to succeed or to fail but to at least have a 50-50 chance of a third option. At least if they failed I would be content knowing they tried a third option.
What's sickening is that the scene being real doesn't cause more outrage.
No, they pretty much are the top dogs in their galaxy. Reed's moved entire planets into various dimensions and universes before. Pushing Earths (his or others) somewhere should be child's play for him. Galactic empires fall when trying to invade Earth because of them. Strange fought a bloody 1000-year war when drafted by beings that are gods to him and won. Hickman's really just treating them like newbies.
Last edited by MyriVerse; 07-25-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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I do agree that Hickman should have given a bit more time showing the Illuminati talking shop, trying to figure out solutions, and failing. That would even things out a bit. Without it, it looks like people are making assumptions that they haven't even thought about another option.
They could easily team up with the Great Society their efforts to think of a a third solution would go from 50% to a good 80%. The Society would provide the speed to find resources for the Illuminati and make great time creating whatever device while the Illuminati keep certain members like Namor on guard duty with Thanos and Swan.
What is this thing called life that you would hold onto it so dearly? There has been proven time and again to be an afterlife in the mu. Living selfishly is no real life. If the Illuminati are out of their depth why not call for help? It's not like there aren't other beings in the universe that they can call up.
Black and white heroism? No. Heroism yes. Dr. Strange just murdered a group of noble beings who trying to save their world. The Illuminati as a group might blow up a world full of people who have never done them any harm. Murder on that scale is not heroism, no matter what rationalization justification you try to cloak it in. It is murder.