Damian Wayne Robin Appreciation 2021

[marhawkman]

I also don't see an adult Damian with long hair, but maybe being 17? I will do some fanarts tests, can't hold it anymore <3
For me Batman 666 is so dystopic </3 I would prefer Damian not living like this.

#taliaisagoodparent fics generally is with her giving Damian to Bruce early, so in the end they don't have so much interaction, but I like the concept.

***I didn't find this fic by the name, can you pretty please paste the link?

Perhaps not long but more.... mid-neck? Doesn't go all the way to shoulders, but goes a little farther down.

At any rate, I think the best use of Talia is as an emotional obstacle. Bruce wishes he could see her as just another enemy, especially after Damian. But that was Talia's entire goal from BEFORE she met him. She wants Bruce to be WITH her not against her. When done just right it makes you wonder if Batman should give her what she wants... if only in a limited way. Damian? Well Talia sending Damian to learn from his father was... the sort of move that's simultaneously cunning and manipulative, as well as kind and caring. Is it a good thing? Is it insidiously super-mega-evil? Will we ever be able to figure it out? Good stuff.

[garazza]

"Yes, because...."
You love to speak passive aggressive and be disrespectful huh?
Whatever, keep harassing creators and call it "confronting", I don't care. I suspect that such behavior has the opposite effect to what you want.....

Sorry, I forgot that calling out racism was actually worse than actual racism.

It is harassment and it's also ignorant as ****. Creators don't draw the books. They don't colour the work. That would be the artist.

Not to mention that ensuring representation and spotting inconsistences like Damian's varying pigmentation fall on the editor.

It's ignorant to think that whitewashing is simply the result of an individual act done by an individual person and is not part of an overall system/pattern of marginalization and oppression. What you described is a failure on all levels to combat racism in comics and other creative fields. Fans being critical of the art they love and holding creators to account for serious issues like this is not harassment.

Jonboy Meyers was removed from TT Rebirth because he wanted to focus on Damian's heritage and draw him with brown skin. Gleb Melnikov felt much the same way and colored him correctly in the first issue, but the second a new colorist was brought on Damian was colored white. Even when creators do take it upon themselves to do right by Damian and combat racism, it's almost invariably undone or ignored (or in some cases, like Meyers, retaliated against) soon afterwards not because the individuals that follow after them are themselves racist, but because there is inherent bias and discrimination in the creative process of publishing comics that they may not be aware they are perpetuating and so they need to be informed what they are doing is wrong and how to correct it, but if you think that's harassment, that's on you.

[Rebeca Armus]

Sure. I just searched for it on Archive of our Own and couldn't find it. Luckily I had the link from the PDF.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/16...pters/39643260

Thanks, I just read it <3 pretty funny fic and I like how Talia was write ^u^

[dietrich]

Sorry, I forgot that calling out racism was actually worse than actual racism.



It's ignorant to think that whitewashing is simply the result of an individual act done by an individual person and is not part of an overall system/pattern of marginalization and oppression. What you described is a failure on all levels to combat racism in comics and other creative fields. Fans being critical of the art they love and holding creators to account for serious issues like this is not harassment.

Jonboy Meyers was removed from TT Rebirth because he wanted to focus on Damian's heritage and draw him with brown skin. Gleb Melnikov felt much the same way and colored him correctly in the first issue, but the second a new colorist was brought on Damian was colored white. Even when creators do take it upon themselves to do right by Damian and combat racism, it's almost invariably undone or ignored (or in some cases, like Meyers, retaliated against) soon afterwards not because the individuals that follow after them are themselves racist, but because there is inherent bias and discrimination in the creative process of publishing comics that they may not be aware they are perpetuating and so they need to be informed what they are doing is wrong and how to correct it, but if you think that's harassment, that's on you.

When did I say that white washing washing was an individual thing?

Matter of fact I made the opposite point.

you are the one who was standing up for the fan picking on individual creators despite knowing full well that the individuals themselves don't have the power to make that change.

Despite knowing that Artists have lost their jobs over this

Despite knowing that Damian's skin colour isn't decided by these creators but by higher ups. Robin is a corporate character so WB is the one that has final say. WB decide if Damian's racial mix should be reflected in his pigmentation.

Damian is mixed so it's very possible for him to be passing. That doesn't make him any less of a minority [only less visibly so] Perhaps wB/DC are trying to eat their Cake and have it at the same time


If fans are aware that pressuring writers, artists and other targets lower on the food chain doesn't work and might even result in them losing their job then it's especially cruel that they carry applying pressure.

If any fans out there really care about DC making Damian a visibly ethnic minority then apply pressure on DC and WB.

Leave the creators alone and focus on DC nation, Daniel Cherry, the upcoming DC fandome is a chance for fans to gain access to people with real power and clout.

You just pointed out how the some artists would like to have Damian's look reflect his racial mix but they were thwarted and at times punished

[Jon Meyers a non-white artist in a sector dominated by white artists lost his job. That TT gig would have been a huge thing for Jon but he lost the sweet gig because he did what fans who contact creators re Damian's skin colour implore them to do]

How is that not harrasment? Putting pressure on a person to do something that you know they can't do is Harrasment and for dedicated fans who most likely are aware of the Meyer incident it is extremely cruel.

[Aahz]

Honestly I think with Damian the whole race thing is anyway a no win scenario.

If they ignore it people complain about white washing, if they would embrace it the same people would likely complain about how problematic/stereotypical/what ever the Al Ghuls are, or that DCis racist when damian makes again one of his more questionable things (like the Bomb Vest in Teen Titans).

[Konja7]

Yes, because confronting creators over the racist act of whitewashing brown and other characters of color is harassment.

Is it whitewashing when the character was born with white skin? In Damian's creation, he was supossed to look like a mini Bruce.

I mean, Damian has mixed ethnicity, but mixed people could have white pale skin.

[dietrich]

Honestly I think with Damian the whole race thing is anyway a no win scenario.

If they ignore it people complain about white washing, if they would embrace it the same people would likely complain about how problematic/stereotypical/what ever the Al Ghuls are, or that DCis racist when damian makes again one of his more questionable things (like the Bomb Vest in Teen Titans).

Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal.

It's a shame. Visibly ethnic minorities are lacking in comics. people go on about Miles and Kamala. Robin is the most iconic sidekick in the world.

DC has had a Middle Eastern/Asian/Jewish Robin for Decades now and they did nothing with that. Sorry they turned him into a suicide bomber and attempted to replace him with a rich white kid from the suburbs.

Clearly all those that have ben pressuring Creators have been wasting their time. Pressure DC/WB not creators

[garazza]

Is it whitewashing when the character was born with white skin? In Damian's creation, he was supossed to look like a mini Bruce.

I mean, Damian has mixed ethnicity, but mixed people could have white pale skin.

Four out of the past five Robins have white skin, so why not let one of them be brown?

Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal.

It's a shame. Visibly ethnic minorities are lacking in comics. people go on about Miles and Kamala. Robin is the most iconic sidekick in the world.

DC has had a Middle Eastern/Asian/Jewish Robin for Decades now and they did nothing with that. Sorry they turned him into a suicide bomber and attempted to replace him with a rich white kid from the suburbs.

Clearly all those that have ben pressuring Creators have been wasting their time. Pressure DC/WB not creators

I didn't know DC as a monolith has been writing and drawing comics all this time and not individual creators that unconsciously bring in their own biases into their work that has resulted in the continued whitewashing of Damian that can only be counteracted by a concerted and purposeful by creators to color him correctly. Creators whitewash Damian, not because they fear for their jobs, but because they don't know he's been whitewashed or what that even means. Without being informed and educated by fans, how are they supposed to know because certainly DC/WB ain't gonna do that.

[Konja7]

Four out of the past five Robins have white skin, so why not let one of them be brown?

Damian could have brown skin.

However, the accusation of whitewashing tend to imply that the race of a character is changed to become white.

I wouldn't call whitewashing to Damian being drawn with white skin, since the character was created with that skin color. And Damian with white pale skin won't erase his mixed ethnicity.

[dietrich]

Four out of the past five Robins have white skin, so why not let one of them be brown?



I didn't know DC as a monolith has been writing and drawing comics all this time and not individual creators that unconsciously bring in their own biases into their work that has resulted in the continued whitewashing of Damian that can only be counteracted by a concerted and purposeful by creators to color him correctly. Creators whitewash Damian, not because they fear for their jobs, but because they don't know he's been whitewashed or what that even means. Without being informed and educated by fans, how are they supposed to know because certainly DC/WB ain't gonna do that.

Dude are you serious?

Creators don't know what whitewashing means. I know the mean stereotype is that Americans are dumb but come on.

Stop harassing creators.
Enough with the excuses.
Pressure those that have the power to mandate that Damian be brown.

Jeez you guys are so callous. One black guy has lost his job because of this and yet you guys won't listen.

Writers and artistic know what white washing means. They are not stupid especially in todays political climate.
Stop Harassing creators.

[Fergus]

Damian has a reputation for having the worst fans. Today I believeit

@Garrazza how you can advocate for fans to harass creators even when you yourself said that The old TT artist lost his job over it,

That Gleb tried to make Damian Brown but failed.

Someone fired meyers, someone said no to Gleb. That person is the one that decides of Damian should be brown.

You comment that artists in America don't know what whitewashing is clearly a lie to support your pov that harassment is good.

You yourself admitted just now 2 artists who wanted to avoid whitewashing Damian. Why would you assume the others don't?
Can you show me any evidence to support this assumption? especially when you make proof of the opposite?

My kids are mixed race. I would like them to be represented more but I don't think harassing people who don't have the power to change things is the way to go

[Aahz]

Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal.

In his first appearance Damian beheaded a villain, he has iirc kidnapped several other heros (his first Teen Titans team and Jon Kent iirc) and has run an illeagal prison, the the Bomb Vest doesn't seem that out of character to me.

[Fergus]

People please don't harass writers and artists. They don't own the intellectual property that is Damian Wayne Robin. Writers and Artists have to have certain changes approved by higher ups.

Priest has mentioned this, Glass and Williamson also touched on this. Gleb was denied by TPTB and Jonboy was fired for attempting to to give us a brown Damian. Clearly the people who decide how Damian is portrayed are behind the scenes

[Fergus]

In his first appearance Damian beheaded a villain, he has iirc kidnapped several other heros (his first Teen Titans team and Jon Kent iirc) and has run an illeagal prison, the the Bomb Vest doesn't seem that out of character to me.

Those are not the same thing at all. the bomb vest is out of character, promoted a negative stereotype and was racist as heck. There is a reason why people took offence to the suicide bomber and why it's always picked as a very OCC moment for Damian. Because it was an OCC moment

[marhawkman]

Then writers should just refrain from writing racist stereotypes. Don't write a character that's part middle eastern as a suicide bomber [WTF]. it's not hard. Glass went out of his way to be deliberately racist writing Damian out of character to support his racist portrayal.

It's a shame. Visibly ethnic minorities are lacking in comics. people go on about Miles and Kamala. Robin is the most iconic sidekick in the world.

DC has had a Middle Eastern/Asian/Jewish Robin for Decades now and they did nothing with that. Sorry they turned him into a suicide bomber and attempted to replace him with a rich white kid from the suburbs.

Clearly all those that have ben pressuring Creators have been wasting their time. Pressure DC/WB not creators

I don't think it's so much about "don't use racist stereotypes". Why? because there's stereotypes for EVERYTHING. Some of them aren't based on reality, but most are based on something in real life. The problem is how they get used, and less about what they are.

The question isn't if someone took offense. It's like Aesop said, "You can't please everyone." The mere fact that Ra'is Al'ghul is Arabic and a "terrorist" is considered an offensive stereotype by some. It's one of those things where at some point you have to question WHY people are complaining. The idea that you can't have Arabic villains is absurd. But villains are defined by negative characteristics, and thus some "stereotype" based on those negative traits will apply.

So why do people complain? Well, because they dislike the way it was written. Ultimately it's about wanting to dictate whether a character(often by proxy based on group identification) is portrayed positively or negatively. Is there a GOOD reason for complaints? well people claim there is, but it's hard to say if those claims are correct without investigating each one.

Those are not the same thing at all. the bomb vest is out of character, promoted a negative stereotype and was racist as heck. There is a reason why people took offence to the suicide bomber and why it's always picked as a very OCC moment for Damian. Because it was an OCC moment

Yeah this really hits the nail on the head. It's not solely about if it's "racist" but about whether it was just DUMB. Does it make sense from an in-universe perspective? This one had multiple problems, the biggest being that it was a stupid idea for both an in out of universe reasons.