possible signs of sexism, including weisman.

[phonogram12]

Who are these people that no one particularly cares about that much?

The fans outside of WW fandom.

I thought that the writing was important to the characters that we are supposed to care about.

It is. I'm glad you've been paying attention.

[BiteTheBullet]

The fans outside of WW fandom.

Didn't know you had to qualify your remarks.

[WonderLight789]

The fans outside of WW fandom.



It is. I'm glad you've been paying attention.

So WW is irrelevant then? Since she is a pathetic weaklink in most stories. Finally we have found out the reason why. People outside WW fandom don't care about her. So i guess that justifies all the crap she gets. Getting huret by humans and jobbing all the time. Intersting.

[WonderLight789]

Ehhh. If that were true, she wouldn't have had two movies and a third in production. If that were true, she wouldn't have multiple books featuring her right now. If she isn't being written the way you like, I completely understand, but there's no reason to resort to outright lies.

2 movies. She was portrayed as a weaklink in the second. A jl movie where she was fodder to supereman and unable to hurt spetten without gear and help.


Her comics flop in sales so don't try to act like she is a hit. She is portrayed as a weaklink in dcseased. injustice, dc vs vampires, jl comics. Her own title like tamaki run etc. So why is WW getting treated as a jobber and weaklink? Why? Guess people don't care about her. Otherwise her stats would be respected. That's your logic not mine. So please explain why WW is treated as a weak piece of garbage.

[phonogram12]

So WW is irrelevant then? Since she is a pathetic weaklink in most stories. Finally we have found out the reason why. People outside WW fandom don't care about her. So i guess that justifies all the crap she gets. Getting huret by humans and jobbing all the time. Intersting.

People outside of WW fandom don't really care about Cheetah. Sorry if that was unclear. People clearly care about WW. I care about WW. It's just that I don't think stats define whether or not a story is any good. Stats are just icing. The story's the cake.

2 movies. She was portrayed as a weaklink in the second. A jl movie where she was fodder to supereman and unable to hurt spetten without gear and help.

TBF, everyone was fodder for Superman for that movie, so in this case, this is hardly exclusive to Diana.

Her comics flop in sales so don't try to act like she is a hit. She is portrayed as a weaklink in dcseased. injustice, dc vs vampires, jl comics. Her own title like tamaki run etc. So why is WW getting treated as a jobber and weaklink? Why? Guess people don't care about her. Otherwise her stats would be respected. That's your logic not mine. So please explain why WW is treated as a weak piece of garbage.

Do her comics flop in same, though? I don't think they're in the top 10, but I think flop is a hard exaggeration. And if she was really as big of a flop as you say, I don't think she'd continue to have all these minis published. DC (and by extension WB) is a business first and foremost. If something's not selling, they're not going to continue putting the effort forth.

You obsession with stats simply astounds me. I've never encountered anyone so obsessed with stats in all my 40 years of reading comic books. The only place I've ever really noticed that stats matter a lick in fiction is role-playing games. Honestly, I think you should stick to those. It might keep your blood pressure down.

[WonderLight789]

People outside of WW fandom don't really care about Cheetah. Sorry if that was unclear. People clearly care about WW. I care about WW. It's just that I don't think stats define whether or not a story is any good. Stats are just icing. The story's the cake.



TBF, everyone was fodder for Superman for that movie, so in this case, this is hardly exclusive to Diana.



Do her comics flop in same, though? I don't think they're in the top 10, but I think flop is a hard exaggeration. And if she was really as big of a flop as you say, I don't think she'd continue to have all these minis published. DC (and by extension WB) is a business first and foremost. If something's not selling, they're not going to continue putting the effort forth.

You obsession with stats simply astounds me. I've never encountered anyone so obsessed with stats in all my 40 years of reading comic books. The only place I've ever really noticed that stats matter a lick in fiction is role-playing games. Honestly, I think you should stick to those. It might keep your blood pressure down.

Stats and power levels are part of a story. You basically say you have no standards. And will accept anything. You will buy a character taking a nuclear explosion unharmed and then getting hurt by a human hiting him.


Her comics almost never make it to the top 50 so. You can guess. Actually Superman comics sell around the same these days. But he still gets respected more than WW.Priving onc again the bias and sexism of the industry.

So what that everybody was fodder to Superman in JL movie? It doesn't make it ok. So it is ok for WW to be a helpless piece of garbage next to SM? That makes it a good story?

You never met anybodsy as obsessed with stats? I'm not obsessed. I want accurate portrayals of what the characters stats are supposed to be. And i'm not the only one here that thinks the same way. I never encountered anyone without standards. Who will justify anything that happens in a plot wuthout explanation, because ''the story''. Sigh

[phonogram12]

Stats and power levels are part of a story. You basically say you have no standards. And will accept anything. You will buy a character taking a nuclear explosion unharmed and then getting hurt by a human hiting him.

Those are words I literally never said, but sure. What I've said (repeatedly, mind you) is that while certainly stats are part of the story, they are not the most important part of the story. For me, that's characterization. Characterization makes me care about whether characters win or lose. Stats and stats alone do absolutely nothing for me.

Priving onc again the bias and sexism of the industry.

Okay. I never said otherwise. If I did, I would like you to point that out, please.

So what that everybody was fodder to Superman in JL movie? It doesn't make it ok.

Never said it did. Please point out where I said otherwise.

So it is ok for WW to be a helpless piece of garbage next to SM? That makes it a good story?

Also please post where I said this, too.

You never met anybodsy as obsessed with stats? I'm not obsessed.

Okay, I will just leave that one alone. It is just too easy.

I want accurate portrayals of what the characters stats are supposed to be. And i'm not the only one here that thinks the same way. I never encountered anyone without standards. Who will justify anything that happens in a plot wuthout explanation, because ''the story''. Sigh

I've never encountered anyone who didn't care about story just so long as stats were "respected," but here we are.

[WonderLight789]

Those are words I literally never said, but sure. What I've said (repeatedly, mind you) is that while certainly stats are part of the story, they are not the most important part of the story. For me, that's characterization. Characterization makes me care about whether characters win or lose. Stats and stats alone do absolutely nothing for me.



Okay. I never said otherwise. If I did, I would like you to point that out, please.



Never said it did. Please point out where I said otherwise.



Also please post where I said this, too.



Okay, I will just leave that one alone. It is just too easy.



I've never encountered anyone who didn't care about story just so long as stats were "respected," but here we are.

Then stop trying to justify crappy writing. you have no reason to have Cheetah or WW being jobbers to a human character without any expolanation. Just plot armor ignoring stat and levels. Tha is not a good story. And fans don't enjoy stories where their favs are only there to be jobbers, beat up, their powers not working like they are supposed to etc. I hardly find any fan who could enjoy a story like that about their favs.

[hareluyafan1]

Those are words I literally never said, but sure. What I've said (repeatedly, mind you) is that while certainly stats are part of the story, they are not the most important part of the story. For me, that's characterization. Characterization makes me care about whether characters win or lose. Stats and stats alone do absolutely nothing for me.

I agree completely that characterisation is the most important thing. But at the same time "stats" should be respected too. Keep in mind that a character's capabilities are part of their characterisation. For example, if they're a really good athlete that shows they have discipline and dedication. Traits that many people find admirable.

To repeat an example I previously used; one of my favourite characters in "Naruto" is Uchiha Mikoto. I like her because she's a sweet, kind woman and a loving wife and mother. I don't care that she isn't "the most powerful ninja ever" or something. However she was a jounin before retiring. That's an aspect of her character and it should be respected. If there was a flashback story where she was defeated by some two-bit bandits I would be ticked off, because it would imply that she isn't worthy of her position.

I've never encountered anyone who didn't care about story just so long as stats were "respected," but here we are.

Story should be written to fit the characters, not the other way around. In the case of that Catwoman cartoon they wanted a "cat vs big cat" story. DC has tons of big cat-themed characters that would have been a perfect fit for the movie's antagonist. Instead they went with Cheetah. That is lazy and shows a lack of respect for the lore. "The story" is no excuse because, again, there are tons of characters they could have used instead. They just didn't care.

Plus it's not like that's a one-off thing either. Cheetah has lost to Catwoman multiple times and been knocked out by a single punch from Batman. Can you honestly say that doesn't show a lack of respect for WW lore? And why does that happen with WW's arch-enemy but not with Batman or Superman's main villains? When was the last time you saw Joker being effortlessly defeated by someone besides Batman? How many times has Joker been defeated by some other hero's support character?

Edited to add: An example; in "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" Shatner originally wanted to have the entire Enterprise crew turn on Kirk so he had no-one to rely on but himself. That was the story he wanted to tell. Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley rightly called foul, pointing out that Spock and McCoy had proven themselves very loyal to Kirk and having them turn on him would be disrespectful to them. The story was changed accordingly.

See what I mean about how the story should be written to fit the characters, not the other way around?

[WonderLight789]

alex ross is another one that rubs me the wrong way.

The way he has writen WW is not the tea. I mean for example. In justice. You see how important captain marvel is to the story. WW? Nothing important. In the comics. He even takes the time to explain how shazam has the power of hercules, Zeus, mercury etc. For WW? Nothing is mentioned. Just her lasso and bracelets. And that people tend to think of her as perfect. Sigh. 2 characters with a similar background and power source. But one is clearly treated with more respect. The male character.

[Alpha]

Nah, Justice is a quite good Wonder Woman story. That moment at the end where Diana is sculpted once more while surrounded by everyone that respects her, it should be made canon

[WonderLight789]

Nah, Justice is a quite good Wonder Woman story. That moment at the end where Diana is sculpted once more while surrounded by everyone that respects her, it should be made canon

That story did nothing for WW. Nothing.

[DABellWrites]

All of the guys you listed were most likely pre-crisis readers. Canonically, Diana wasn't nowhere near Superman's power levels. So, they didn't know Diana should actually be written on par with the Man of Steel. Honestly, I can't go calling a preference sexist. Geoff Johns has always has his own ideas for WW, but WW1984 is all Patty Jenkins. Snyder is a mix bag. He clearly lost the pacing at the end of the fight to have time for Clark so a butterfly could fly on his hand (the theatrical cut proved half of the ZSJL wasn't need). When the line goes "You could've saved your sisters". Steppenwolf actually acknowledges her strength. As I stated mixed bag.

[Agent Z]

All of the guys you listed were most likely pre-crisis readers. Canonically, Diana wasn't nowhere near Superman's power levels. So, they didn't know Diana should actually be written on par with the Man of Steel. Honestly, I can't go calling a preference sexist. Geoff Johns has always has his own ideas for WW, but WW1984 is all Patty Jenkins. Snyder is a mix bag. He clearly lost the pacing at the end of the fight to have time for Clark so a butterfly could fly on his hand (the theatrical cut proved half of the ZSJL wasn't need). When the line goes "You could've saved your sisters". Steppenwolf actually acknowledges her strength. As I stated mixed bag.

Even pre-crisis, Diana was doing stuff like moving an entire island out of a tidal wave's path and throwing a large chunk of Kryptonite half-way across the planet.

[BiteTheBullet]

Even pre-crisis, Diana was doing stuff like moving an entire island out of a tidal wave's path and throwing a large chunk of Kryptonite half-way across the planet.

Problem was the consistency of these power feats. I think they should go back to something like Byrne's Man of Steel days in terms of power. Still very powerful, but not uber powerful. It seems the power creep, especially with the men, gets more and more as time goes on since the writers can't seem to play within boundaries. How many times to we have to hear that this character has always held back, etc... It gets old very quickly.