If You Could Kill Off/Retire *ONE* Green Lantern Who Would You Choose?

[married guy]

[QUOTE=Refrax5;6037024]

Yeah, it's not like Wally fans had to deal with Wally getting sidelined after Barry came back, got thrown in limbo for years after a Crisis event then replaced by an OC both in the comics and on a tv show while classic Wally was unceremoniously killed off on his last cartoon appearance, Wally's arcs, personality and accomplishments being given given to Barry in adaptations to the point where the two became interchangeable, even his love interest given to Barry on that tv show, then classic Wally got brought back only to be turned into murderer so he could be sidelined again and it took wholesale firing of the top brass of DC comics that the character that he managed to get back on track.

No sir, no reason to be paranoid at all.

But to fair, most of us Wally fans don't hate Barry. We hate Johns, Didio and everybody involved in creating this mess.

Oh, people were complaining before the first issue of Rebirth even happened. And yes, a lot of Wally fans trash Barry every chance they get. And while I didn't start reading until the 90s, I'm sure Barry fans weren't thrilled Barry had his happy ending ruined with a pretty cruel and agonizing death before being treated as an archaic, outdated bore by editorial and Wally fans for over two decades. It goes both ways, I'm sure. I always liked Barry and felt it was unfair that he had to meet with a tragic end just for Wally to shine.

I would vote to retire Kyle or Simon. They're the least interesting and unique, although I don't think we need to kill off anybody. Every character is somebody's favorite and I kinda hate how nobody is allowed a happy ending in comics.

Just for the record, that was never the case at all.
Editorial decided that Barry's sales had slipped to a level where he needed to go and was offered up to Marv Wolfman as fodder for his big upcoming story with George Perez.
DC were originally looking at introducing a new Flash (who wasn't even a speedster!) but decided at the 11th hour to simply pass the mantle to Wally instead.
Even Barry's death had a built in loophole (Marv has commented about this before, or buy a copy of the BRILLIANT Flash Compendium). He was never shafted so Wally could be the one & only.

[Johnny]

People often make fun of these fan wars but in reality it's so ugly. No matter what happens, noone wins in the end and just keeps going forever.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'd probably retire Simon and give him another ID like Airwave.

[TheBatman]

At this point, I’d get rid of any human GL that isn’t Alan, Hal, Guy, John, Kyle, or Jessica.

Getting rid of Hal, John, or Jessica is foolish at this point.

I voted for Simon because he really hasn’t caught on much at this point. I’d have him retire and become a supporting character for Jessica.

[John Venus]

Oh, people were complaining before the first issue of Rebirth even happened. And yes, a lot of Wally fans trash Barry every chance they get. And while I didn't start reading until the 90s, I'm sure Barry fans weren't thrilled Barry had his happy ending ruined with a pretty cruel and agonizing death before being treated as an archaic, outdated bore by editorial and Wally fans for over two decades. It goes both ways, I'm sure. I always liked Barry and felt it was unfair that he had to meet with a tragic end just for Wally to shine. But this is derailing the thread.

I would vote to retire Kyle or Simon. They're the least interesting and unique, although I don't think we need to kill off anybody. Every character is somebody's favorite and I kinda hate how nobody is allowed a happy ending in comics.

I may or may not have one of those people. >_> But hey, I was an angry teenager with an internet connection back then.

I remember the period of time before Barry was brought back quite well. Barry was the symbol of heroic sacrifice who gave up his life to save the universe. He was venerated after his death. He was the heroic ideal that Wally had to live up to. He got good showings in JLA: Year One, Brave and the Bold and New Frontier. There were fans who claimed he was more interesting after his death than before. Barry got a good deal post-death compared to the spiteful treatment Wally got after Barry's comeback. Compare the Barry of yesteryear to the running joke he is today; this generation of fans only know Barry as the guy who messes up the timeline every Tuesday and the Tuesday before both in comics, animation and in his live action appearances. Barry Allen is the reason why Geoff Johns is the poster child for why some fans shouldn't be allowed to write their favorite characters.

[PCN24454]

I find it funny how the least controversial Lantern is Guy Gardner.

[NathanS]

There were fans who claimed he was more interesting after his death than before.

That's... not them being positive about him. That was "This character is so inherently shitty the only good thing about is him is dying and being reduced to a statue people cry over." That is how it was presented. Hal got a VERY similar treatment, with a lot of shifting goalposts. "He had no personality ever he was his Silver Age perfect human from day one who was never presented as an inner life" was an argument, counter that and "Well he had no arc, he was just a perfect hero from day one. All good characters start being bad at it and grow into being a hero." Counter that and "Well he has a personality, but it's just a generic action hero, unlike Kyle who is an everyman and therefore very original and unique or gruff military man, super unique." There is a very real element of "Look at that ******* eating crackers like he owns the place" when it comes to this stuff. It's never enough for a character to be one you just don't like much it must be PROVED that they are inherently bad.

I find it funny how the least controversial Lantern is Guy Gardner.

A large part is Guy has never been in... anything presented as the single central GL. Oh he might be the GL of a particular team, but that's it. And his fans tend to be okay with that. And so other fandoms don't see him as a threat. Why would they start making him the central GL now? And his fans aren't angry when he's mostly starting in spin-offs. They just tend to be happy he's being used. Other GL's have fans who want them to be the main GL, and some degree of the reason for other fans to be worried they will do that taking away the chance to be the GL from thier fav.

[married guy]

I find it funny how the least controversial Lantern is Guy Gardner.

I would kill for a new Guy/Kyle title. GLC: Recharge was freaking awesome.

[Username taken]

[QUOTE=married guy;6038477]

Just for the record, that was never the case at all.
Editorial decided that Barry's sales had slipped to a level where he needed to go and was offered up to Marv Wolfman as fodder for his big upcoming story with George Perez.
DC were originally looking at introducing a new Flash (who wasn't even a speedster!) but decided at the 11th hour to simply pass the mantle to Wally instead.
Even Barry's death had a built in loophole (Marv has commented about this before, or buy a copy of the BRILLIANT Flash Compendium). He was never shafted so Wally could be the one & only.

Exactly.

Barry would have come back much earlier if Wally didn't turn out to be as successful as he was.

At the time, Barry Allen was kind of viewed as a "dead end character" and this was before the era of "endless relaunches".

[Jim Kelly]

It really bugs me that editors and writers have the power to kill off or significantly alter the major characters. Retire them, put them in limbo, fine. But when they make these big changes, any writer who had a cool idea for how to use one of these characters can't do so, without first reviving and/or rehabilitating the character in question.

Of course, in the case of Barry and Hal, it wasn't just an editor and writer that were able to hijack them--this went straight to the top. What happened with Hal bothers me a lot more than what happened with Barry, because the Powers That Be were so insulting to the existing fandom about it--and it wasn't just something that affected Jordan. In order to promote one new character they killed off the Corps, got rid of most Guardians and took away the ring from those characters they couldn't get away with killing. They also destroyed one of their fictional cities.

Imagine if this had been done with Batman. First set out to make Bruce absolutely crazy and corrupt--portray the Waynes as criminals responsible for all the evil in Gotham. Then Joker drops a nuclear bomb on Gotham City, erasing it from the map. In the aftermath, Bruce, now a super-powered villain called Panaflex, kills off Joker, Dick, Tim, Jim, Alfred, Barbara, Selina and any other Gotham characters that weren't already killed off by the bomb, including most of the other rogues.

Then Panaflex goes about trying to destroy the whole Justice League, who go off to a different fictional city to find another rich, white kid and draft him as their new Batman. He gets a completely different costume with a mask that looks like a salad spinner. And no other character dare look like him or have a similar codename. Maybe kill off Green Arrow and Black Canary just in case they get too much attention for fighting crime in a comparable manner. Finally Bruce as Panaflex dies in a battle with Darkseid to save the world, clearing the way for the new Batman to be the only Dark Knight in the universe.

And if any fans of Bruce, Dick, Tim, Jim, Alfred, Barbara, Selina and Gotham City dare to complain about this--the publisher tells them they had their day, this Batman is for a new generation of readers who are tired of all that old Bat-junk.

[bretmaverick2]

I’d vote for Hal Jordan, hands down. The only GL I’ve ever really been interested in was John Stewart.

I’ve never found Hal an interesting character.

[Refrax5]

[QUOTE=married guy;6038477]

Just for the record, that was never the case at all.
Editorial decided that Barry's sales had slipped to a level where he needed to go and was offered up to Marv Wolfman as fodder for his big upcoming story with George Perez.
DC were originally looking at introducing a new Flash (who wasn't even a speedster!) but decided at the 11th hour to simply pass the mantle to Wally instead.
Even Barry's death had a built in loophole (Marv has commented about this before, or buy a copy of the BRILLIANT Flash Compendium). He was never shafted so Wally could be the one & only.

I know that's true. I just mean that this idea that Barry was treated as this bland anachronism after the fact and so many fans of Wally believe that and insist that he has to be dead for Wally to be important. I like Wally myself and never felt that was the case.

[Refrax5]

I may or may not have one of those people. >_> But hey, I was an angry teenager with an internet connection back then.

I remember the period of time before Barry was brought back quite well. Barry was the symbol of heroic sacrifice who gave up his life to save the universe. He was venerated after his death. He was the heroic ideal that Wally had to live up to. He got good showings in JLA: Year One, Brave and the Bold and New Frontier. There were fans who claimed he was more interesting after his death than before. Barry got a good deal post-death compared to the spiteful treatment Wally got after Barry's comeback. Compare the Barry of yesteryear to the running joke he is today; this generation of fans only know Barry as the guy who messes up the timeline every Tuesday and the Tuesday before both in comics, animation and in his live action appearances. Barry Allen is the reason why Geoff Johns is the poster child for why some fans shouldn't be allowed to write their favorite characters.

I remember that time, too. Barry was given lip service as being this great hero with the subtext always being that he was this bland, outdated, perfect character and wasn't "hip" like Wally was. They did the same thing with Hal, which was even more obnoxious because Hal was a very imperfect, dysfunctional character.

But as much as I like Wally, those stories definitely treated Barry like he was so lame next to the new, young gen x Flash. They treated him positively on a very shallow level.

[WebLurker]

I think that Simon would be the logical one to retire in that he doesn't seem to have clicked with readers the way the others have (esp. Hal, John, Kyle, and Jessica). Maybe have him take a Lantern Corps desk job and keep him around in case a writer wants to use him as a guest character (e.g. an all hands on deck crises, Jessica wants help from her old friend for a tough case, that sort of thing).

Personally though, I think Hal is ready for retirement; from what I've observed, everything he does is done better by one or more of the main Lanterns. Beyond being "the first one" (of the modern incarnation) and the "greatest" (has that ever been explained?), he doesn't really stand out from the pack anymore.

[Refrax5]

I think that Simon would be the logical one to retire in that he doesn't seem to have clicked with readers the way the others have (esp. Hal, John, Kyle, and Jessica). Maybe have him take a Lantern Corps desk job and keep him around in case a writer wants to use him as a guest character (e.g. an all hands on deck crises, Jessica wants help from her old friend for a tough case, that sort of thing).

Personally though, I think Hal is ready for retirement; from what I've observed, everything he does is done better by one or more of the main Lanterns. Beyond being "the first one" (of the modern incarnation) and the "greatest" (has that ever been explained?), he doesn't really stand out from the pack anymore.

His entire history pretty much showed how he was the best. All the times he led them to victory, all of his feats and everything. He used his ring in unconventional ways the other guys never thought of. And along with John, he's the most popular. When he isn't the lead, I tend to lose interest. I like John a lot, but he's written as so stiff by modern writers that he comes across as blander than he should these days.

I think Kyle and Simon are the most unremarkable characters. Kyle is in that mold of "young, hip relatable guy" characters from the 90s that feel like they were created by a focus group and I don't even get what Simon is supposed to be. They're fine, but I don't feel like either of them add anything. Kyle really only works when he's the only GL.