Is there bias or unintentional sexism in tom taylor's writing of WW?

[SonOfBaldwin]

I don’t think Diana was “mansplained” to, she was new to Men’s World so Steve very helpfully guided her around it, that doesn’t constitute “mansplaining” imo. And she didn’t necessarily always do as he told her. I adore the first WW movie actually, I don’t even mind the 3rd act, I just really wish she hadn’t thrown that German conscript off the tower, that really bugged me. That poor fellow went home to his mother, wife and kids in a box

Also to be fair, objects “weigh less” underwater so to speak ‘cause buoyancy counteracts the downward pull of gravity, that’s why objects sink slower than they fall if that makes sense. It’s still a great feat of strength and better than anything Wonder Woman’s gotten to do which is frustrating, but she was clearly superior to Aquaman in Justice League so there’s that. Superman also mopped the floor with her with one hand tied behind his back and that’s been viewed 200 million times on Youtube...

To me it was mansplaining. Both in the original AND in the sequel (after she had been in "Man's World" for at least 70 years).

[SonOfBaldwin]

I'm really shocked that this list placed Diana so highly. Because you know these lists usually downplay her.

The 15 Strongest Movie Superheroes, Ranked



https://www.cbr.com/strongest-movie-...cu-pixar-dceu/

[WonderLight789]

To me it was mansplaining. Both in the original AND in the sequel (after she had been in "Man's World" for at least 70 years).

It is not bad for the first film. Because they went with the approach she doesn't know human world. So trevor is the main factor that made her want to leave to help the world. And he serves as a guide in her first stepts in this new world. That is basically trevor's main and only purpose in the film and comics. as he has never brought anything else to the table. The big issue is the second film. Showing her as miserable because he isn't around after 70 years. Or shoiwing her willing to almost risk the world just to have him back. Until he tells her what is the right thing to do.

[Alpha]

To me it was mansplaining. Both in the original AND in the sequel (after she had been in "Man's World" for at least 70 years).

Mansplaining is a real thing. But since Diana didn't actually know any if the things Steve was explaining about Man's world, it isn't mansplaining, it's just explaining

[NaVi]

So if WW is not as strong as Superman, it is poorly written and it is a matter of machismo. all because the creator of WW decided to make her as strong as Superman, he decided for himself, I guess the creators of Superman don't paint anything.
WW has to be as strong as Superman, due to his training he has to be faster than Superman, uses magic weapons (Superman's weakness) and also has to lose his one weakness. don't hide, you want WW >>>> Superman.
The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

[WonderLight789]

So if WW is not as strong as Superman, it is poorly written and it is a matter of machismo. all because the creator of WW decided to make her as strong as Superman, he decided for himself, I guess the creators of Superman don't paint anything.
WW has to be as strong as Superman, due to his training he has to be faster than Superman, uses magic weapons (Superman's weakness) and also has to lose his one weakness. don't hide, you want WW >>>> Superman.
The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

Marston said she was meant to be as strong as SM. And since then. We have had many statements in DC comics where her power is compared to his. So of course we will get upset if we see him beating her easily. After so many times of DC telling us she is comparable to him in power, is a better fighter with unbreakable magic gear and whatnot. So what we want. Is for DC to put their money where their mouth is. Don't have WW be a punching bag for superman or his villains. If you keep telling us that she is comparable to SM in power.


Female versions of already established male characters are never allowed to be on par with their male counter parts. She hulk, Batgirl, Batwoman, Supergirl, Powergirl, Namora, Mongal etc. They still live in the shadows of their male versions for the most part. While WW was given a brother after 80 years that nobody asked for. And the writer attempted to make him stronger than her. Most of WW villains are women. And for many years, she has been fighting more women than men in her stories. Having one iconic female character centering her lore around women in an ocean of male figures is not going to prevent Superman or anybody else from shining you know. So yeah, your argument just doesn't hold up based on facts.

[BiteTheBullet]

So if WW is not as strong as Superman, it is poorly written and it is a matter of machismo. all because the creator of WW decided to make her as strong as Superman, he decided for himself, I guess the creators of Superman don't paint anything.
WW has to be as strong as Superman, due to his training he has to be faster than Superman, uses magic weapons (Superman's weakness) and also has to lose his one weakness. don't hide, you want WW >>>> Superman.
The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

I am not sure if English is your primary language, but I couldn't follow alot of what you are trying to say.

Again, not trying to be rude, but I couldn't fully follow what you are trying to say.

[SonOfBaldwin]

Mansplaining is a real thing. But since Diana didn't actually know any if the things Steve was explaining about Man's world, it isn't mansplaining, it's just explaining

To you. To me, even with the context, it's mansplaining. Especially since Steve Trevor is the "moral compass" in both movies--the force that has to calm her rage in the first and in the second, break down why her forcing his spirit into another man's body is unethical/rape.

My opinion is that I would have enjoyed those films if the filmmakers weren't dead-set on ensuring dudebros in the audience had a dudebro they could root for instead of showing them that it's okay for dudebros to root for Wonder Woman herself.

[Gaius]

So if WW is not as strong as Superman, it is poorly written and it is a matter of machismo. all because the creator of WW decided to make her as strong as Superman, he decided for himself, I guess the creators of Superman don't paint anything.
WW has to be as strong as Superman, due to his training he has to be faster than Superman, uses magic weapons (Superman's weakness) and also has to lose his one weakness. don't hide, you want WW >>>> Superman.
The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

Her most consistent love interest, and supporting character, is a dude. In fact, her LIs have almost always been dudes.

They took away her cool origin and made her the unwanted offspring of Zeus (a dude).

Two of her three biggest villains are females, her book has one of the first (and still few) all-female villain groups. And then a deadbeat brother who had all her powers + even more.

The only Superman female supervillains are who worth the paper they're printed on are Silver Banshee and Faora/Ursa (functionally the same character).

[bardkeep]

So if WW is not as strong as Superman, it is poorly written and it is a matter of machismo. all because the creator of WW decided to make her as strong as Superman, he decided for himself, I guess the creators of Superman don't paint anything.
WW has to be as strong as Superman, due to his training he has to be faster than Superman, uses magic weapons (Superman's weakness) and also has to lose his one weakness. don't hide, you want WW >>>> Superman.

No one's saying she has to always be the best/strongest, just that it's frustrating how often she's totally slapped around and pushed aside, made disposable, or treated as a plot point to drive a male character's arc. Contrast the JL movie where she's totally jobbed (or worse yet the theatrical cut where you get things like Flash falling on her tits) with something like League of One, where she concedes that she can't beat Superman in a fight but that assertion doesn't diminish her.

For a similar situation - there's no inherent issue with her experiencing unrequited attraction and heartbreak, but it's frustrating when her entire arc is hopelessly pining to prop up a male character (see: Injustice, Red Son). And on the flip side, there are lots of examples of her being rejected by a love interest without it coming across as pathetic - getting dumped by Tom Tresser in Gail Simone's run and Steve in G. Willow Wilson's run, being rejected after asking out Trevor Barnes in Phil Jimenez's run, etc.

The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

Does Black Panther not have enough white people? Does Crazy Rich Asians have too many Asians? There's a huge difference between carving out a space for underrepresented people and reinforcing overrepresentation. Wonder Woman's world was literally created to be a rare space where women are the overwhelming majority.

Besides, it isn't true. Pretty much the only fixture of her supporting cast is Steve. Every run introduces prominent male characters who are swapped out by subsequent writers - Hermes and Inspector Indelgado in Perez's run; Ferdinand and most of the Embassy staff in Rucka's first run; Nemesis, the gorillas, and Achilles in Gail Simone's run; pretty much everyone except for Zola in Brian Azzarello's run; etc. And right now her crew is 50/50, with Diana and Etta representing the ladies and Steve and Siggy the gents.

You also have the movies as a counter-example. After she leaves Themyscira in the first film, basically every supporting character other than Etta (who's a pretty minor character) is a man. And her ONLY ally in WW84 is Steve.

[SonOfBaldwin]

So if WW is not as strong as Superman, it is poorly written and it is a matter of machismo. all because the creator of WW decided to make her as strong as Superman, he decided for himself, I guess the creators of Superman don't paint anything.
WW has to be as strong as Superman, due to his training he has to be faster than Superman, uses magic weapons (Superman's weakness) and also has to lose his one weakness. don't hide, you want WW >>>> Superman.
The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

If Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman, what happens? Is the universe in danger? Do men suddenly feel like they can't be "real men" because a fictional female superhero is stronger than a fictional male superhero? I'm genuinely curious why the very notion of Wonder Woman being the strongest is unpalpable or unimaginable.

[Alpha]

To you. To me, even with the context, it's mansplaining. Especially since Steve Trevor is the "moral compass" in both movies--the force that has to calm her rage in the first and in the second, break down why her forcing his spirit into another man's body is unethical/rape.

My opinion is that I would have enjoyed those films if the filmmakers weren't dead-set on ensuring dudebros in the audience had a dudebro they could root for instead of showing them that it's okay for dudebros to root for Wonder Woman herself.

According to Meriam-Webster
Definition of mansplain
transitive + intransitive

of a man
: to explain something to a woman in a condescending way that assumes she has no knowledge about the topic


Diana had in fact no knowledge about the customs and principles of society in 1917 (aside from sex, but since she grew up in a society of women and was "sculpted by clay" I think it's obvious why he would assume she didn't know what heterosexual sex was

[Alpha]

The male characters are criticized for having female versions, characters that have grown up and become important characters, but you don't say anything about the fact that in the world of WW men are villains or useless, 80 years and there is no character important male in the WWverse, I wonder what you would say if in the 80's of the Superverse or the Batmanverse, there wasn't even a major female character.

You've never read a Wonder Woman run in your life

[WonderLight789]

No one's saying she has to always be the best/strongest, just that it's frustrating how often she's totally slapped around and pushed aside, made disposable, or treated as a plot point to drive a male character's arc. Contrast the JL movie where she's totally jobbed (or worse yet the theatrical cut where you get things like Flash falling on her tits) with something like League of One, where she concedes that she can't beat Superman in a fight but that assertion doesn't diminish her.

For a similar situation - there's no inherent issue with her experiencing unrequited attraction and heartbreak, but it's frustrating when her entire arc is hopelessly pining to prop up a male character (see: Injustice, Red Son). And on the flip side, there are lots of examples of her being rejected by a love interest without it coming across as pathetic - getting dumped by Tom Tresser in Gail Simone's run and Steve in G. Willow Wilson's run, being rejected after asking out Trevor Barnes in Phil Jimenez's run, etc.



Does Black Panther not have enough white people? Does Crazy Rich Asians have too many Asians? There's a huge difference between carving out a space for underrepresented people and reinforcing overrepresentation. Wonder Woman's world was literally created to be a rare space where women are the overwhelming majority.

Besides, it isn't true. Pretty much the only fixture of her supporting cast is Steve. Every run introduces prominent male characters who are swapped out by subsequent writers - Hermes and Inspector Indelgado in Perez's run; Ferdinand and most of the Embassy staff in Rucka's first run; Nemesis, the gorillas, and Achilles in Gail Simone's run; pretty much everyone except for Zola in Brian Azzarello's run; etc. And right now her crew is 50/50, with Diana and Etta representing the ladies and Steve and Siggy the gents.

You also have the movies as a counter-example. After she leaves Themyscira in the first film, basically every supporting character other than Etta (who's a pretty minor character) is a man. And her ONLY ally in WW84 is Steve.

Actually, it does diminish her. So when WW says she can' beeat SM they show it. But the many times they say she is equal to him and they don't show it? It proves that DC are a bunch of hypocrites

[SonOfBaldwin]

According to Meriam-Webster
Definition of mansplain
transitive + intransitive

of a man
: to explain something to a woman in a condescending way that assumes she has no knowledge about the topic


Diana had in fact no knowledge about the customs and principles of society in 1917 (aside from sex, but since she grew up in a society of women and was "sculpted by clay" I think it's obvious why he would assume she didn't know what heterosexual sex was

Okay, friend. As I said, I found it to be mansplaining. If you and the dictionary don't, that's fine with me. As long as you don't tell me how I should feel about what I saw. Since I'm not telling you how you should feel about what you saw.