Art Spiegelman's rejected Golden Age TPB essay

[mikelmcknight72]

But can you find me one critically accepted and mainstream piece of conservative media-a book or a movie or something-that has been successful in the past 20 or 30 years? Because I honestly can't think of any.

Passion of the Christ, arguably Blue Bloods. Considering how predominantly progressive Hollywood is, not much in the way of conservative movies & shows get made for the mainstream.

Also, dude, I know you're on the X-boards. You know they have had several storylines about putting children in camps that refer directly to Trump's policies.

Mutant detention in X-Books typically results in Nazi-style concentration camps in which people are experimented on and murdered. Likening that to ICE detention is grossly inaccurate and unfair. The current POTUS is hardly the first to have ICE detention. Obama certainly had them too.

And I'm not so sure really half of Marvel's readers are right-wing conservatives. And if they are, are those the people Marvel should be courting? Who is spending the money here?

Do you really think only progressives read comics, watch Marvel movies, and watch Marvel TV series? Why shouldn't Marvel court both conservatives and progressives? I'm not just thinking of who is spending money on comics now. I'm thinking of increasing the number of people spending money on comics.

[Drops Of Venus]

So you assume it was because of "right-wingers" Marvel asked him to remove the Trump reference? A request not to disrespect your country's legally elected president and to keep your political opinions for yourself is far from bending your knees for right-wingers, whatever that means these days.

Except Marvel had no problem with disrespecting Trump and making their political opinions on him very clear just a few years ago. The Spider-Gwen annual that portrayed Trump explicitly as a villain came out just one year before the Marvel Two-In-One book was edited to remove a Trump joke. So yeah, I think it's safer to assume they are adopting new policies now out of fear of backlash rather than out of some newfound respect for a politician they mocked and demonized not long ago.

[Banner]

Except Marvel had no problem with disrespecting Trump and making their political opinions on him very clear just a few years ago. The Spider-Gwen annual that portrayed Trump explicitly as a villain came out just one year before the Marvel Two-In-One book was edited to remove a Trump joke. So yeah, I think it's safer to assume they are adopting new policies now out of fear of backlash rather than out of some newfound respect for a politician they mocked and demonized not long ago.

That's why I wrote "better late than never". If they do it just because they are afraid of backlash, it's way better than nothing. I'm glad they're moving away from that nonsense.

The problem is that some assume a certain political view can claim ownership of the comic industry, a conviction that manifest itself in disrespectful comments and intolerance. Respect goes both ways. You can't keep insulting someone just because their opinions are not the same as yours.

And it's not just "straight, white guys" that voted for Trump. Also gays, blacks, transgenders, immigrants and women voted for him.
A few years ago Marvel did what the social media demanded them to do; making the Marvel universe more politically correct, and the sales dropped. When you move away from what made the titles popular to begin with, there will be consequences.

[Panfoot]

Uh, I don't think the complaint about the essay dating the collection is particularly valid when you consider this set of comics are from the 40s...

Personally I think it's a pretty cowardly move, especially considering how relatively light of a burn it is. This is an incredibly niche product already, I highly doubt you would get a big boycott against, especially considering how more left leaning the comics book readership is right now. Besides, the people who would complain about this anyway probably already are just since it existed at any point, these are the same kinds of conservatives that complained when Disney announced the actress for that Little Mermaid remake, or who complained there was a trans storyline in that new Rocko's Modern Life Netflix special. Give them a week and they'll have moved on to the next "greatest injustice in the world".

[Snoop Dogg]

If the rapidly-shipping Secret Empire, which stayed in the top 10 bestsellers for 5 months, was a failure, then it's a shame that WOTR, Infinity Wars, and most comics are bombs.

[scourge]

That's why I wrote "better late than never". If they do it just because they are afraid of backlash, it's way better than nothing. I'm glad they're moving away from that nonsense.

The problem is that some assume a certain political view can claim ownership of the comic industry, a conviction that manifest itself in disrespectful comments and intolerance. Respect goes both ways. You can't keep insulting someone just because their opinions are not the same as yours.

I'm going to stop you right there because your point is laughable and disingenuous.

This is not a matter of 'opinion'. This is a matter of one group being factually and morally wrong on pretty much every single front.

A few years ago Marvel did what the social media demanded them to do; making the Marvel universe more politically correct, and the sales dropped. When you move away from what made the titles popular to begin with, there will be consequences.

Again, entirely wrong.

[mikelmcknight72]

I'm going to stop you right there because your point is laughable and disingenuous.

This is not a matter of 'opinion'. This is a matter of one group being factually and morally wrong on pretty much every single front.

Wow. So much arrogance and disinterest in civil discourse.

[jetengine]

All I'm seeing is the usual right wing shitpost esque excuses to defend Trump.

As for Secret Empire imo there were two main issues. The first was when doing interviews they didnt leave any mystery, no "Well he may be Hydra he may not be" they explicitly said "He's ALWAYS been Hydra" the second issue was that it was Caps 75th Anniversary. Imagine being so brain dead that uou cant fathom how it looks to turn a guy who embodies the best traits of America, created by a jew, into a Nazi on his anniversary.

[scourge]

Wow. So much arrogance and disinterest in civil discourse.

Take your sea-lioning elsewhere.

[Banner]

Besides, the people who would complain about this anyway probably already are just since it existed at any point, these are the same kinds of conservatives that complained when Disney announced the actress for that Little Mermaid remake, or who complained there was a trans storyline in that new Rocko's Modern Life Netflix special. Give them a week and they'll have moved on to the next "greatest injustice in the world".

That's black and white view. For some reason it is OK to complain about "whitewashing", demand that Disney should change the appearence of Tiana in Ralph Breaks the Internet (Disney had already made some changes in The Princess and the Frog, but it still wasn't good enough), the complain about every new blonde Disney princess, insist that Frozen needs more ethnic diversity and wanted Kristoff to have black hair and brown skin (so much for being "colorblind"). And the same kind of people did their best to turn Ender's Game into a flop. Not because of the story, characters, actors, director or scriptwriter, but because they didn't like all the opinion of Orson Scott Card, who had nothing to do with the movie except that he wrote the book. The fact that it was a woman who took a huge risk making it is obvioulsy not that important in cases like this. They also demanded that Card should not be allowed to become the new Superman writer, which DC did what they were told. Do these too whine and complain?

I'm going to stop you right there because your point is laughable and disingenuous.
This is not a matter of 'opinion'. This is a matter of one group being factually and morally wrong on pretty much every single front.

Again, entirely wrong.

You need to get out of the bubble you're living in.

https://thefederalist.com/2017/04/25...hurting-sales/

One of the problems is that already established characters are being retconned and changed when it would work better with new ones.

[mikelmcknight72]

Take your sea-lioning elsewhere.

I'm not sure what sea-lioning is, but I'll guess it is essentially an ad hominem attack.

I stand by my opinions:
1. We need more civil discourse and less demonizing of those with whom we disagree.
2. The comics industry should use more restraint in the insertion of politics into their products, as alienating half of their possible customer base is a poor way to increase sales.
3. A lot of folks are looking to entertainment for a temporary escape the unpleasant politics & news. They aren't looking for more politics.

[scourge]

That's black and white view. For some reason it is OK to complain about "whitewashing", demand that Disney should change the appearence of Tiana in Ralph Breaks the Internet (Disney had already made some changes in The Princess and the Frog, but it still wasn't good enough), the complain about every new blonde Disney princess, insist that Frozen needs more ethnic diversity and wanted Kristoff to have black hair and brown skin (so much for being "colorblind"). And the same kind of people did their best to turn Ender's Game into a flop. Not because of the story, characters, actors, director or scriptwriter, but because they didn't like all the opinion of Orson Scott Card, who had nothing to do with the movie except that he wrote the book. The fact that it was a woman who took a huge risk making it is obvioulsy not that important in cases like this. They also demanded that Card should not be allowed to become the new Superman writer, which DC did what they were told. Do these too whine and complain?



You need to get out of the bubble you're living in.

https://thefederalist.com/2017/04/25...hurting-sales/

One of the problems is that already established characters are being retconned and changed when it would work better with new ones.

Trying to use a source that has no credibility there.

[Banner]

I'm not sure what sea-lioning is, but I'll guess it is essentially an ad hominem attack.

I stand by my opinions:
1. We need more civil discourse and less demonizing of those with whom we disagree.
2. The comics industry should use more restraint in the insertion of politics into their products, as alienating half of their possible customer base is a poor way to increase sales.
3. A lot of folks are looking to entertainment for a temporary escape the unpleasant politics & news. They aren't looking for more politics.

Sea-lioning is a silly meme just rare enough that the opponent has not always heard about it, which gives the illusion of having an upper hand in a discussion: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...73/260/a5b.png

The problem is that certain individuals think they don't have to bother about being civil or show common respect if they disagree with their opponents regarding politics. When a discussion results in angry or spiteful posts, it is rarely because they disagree with others. Most of the time it is because someone's attitude, lack of respect and rude behavior. If someone punches you in the face becuase they disagree that the most attractive color is blue, you get angry because you are punched, not because you disagree with their opinions regarding colors.

Even as a kid I strongly disliked PC-virtue signalling in comics and Entertainment in general, even before I knew what it was. I can say for sure that I would never have bothered to read much of what is published today back then.

Trying to use a source that has no credibility there.

No source has any credibility unless you agree with it.

[jetengine]

Sea lioning is very simple.

Keep harping like a sea lion about wanting civil discourse when its clear you dont.

Its ironic though that people are whining about superheroes being too Pc when the core concept of a superhero is inherently conservative.

[mikelmcknight72]

Sea lioning is very simple.

Keep harping like a sea lion about wanting civil discourse when its clear you dont.

Its ironic though that people are whining about superheroes being too Pc when the core concept of a superhero is inherently conservative.

So, it is an insult based on the idea that the perszon who used it can somehow know what I sm really thinking. It is definitely an ad hominem attack.