A response to Tom King

[comicscollector]

I think that generalizing a status quo as inherently better that the other one is why i disagree the most in these discussions.
I read good stories with both characters that were single and i read good stories with characters being married as well.I don´t think one is always better that the other one.To me that is just generalization.
Good stories can be done with either status quo,but from my humble opinion unless the lore of the character is deep in the theme of family as the Fantastic Four stories,the main character status quo is not that relevant.At least to the notion that only married characters can undergone growth.
The main character being single is not by itself a indication that his stories would be worst that if the character was married.It´s in this notion that i could not disagree more.
To make good stories i think it´s more complicated that just featuring a main character in a married status quo or a single status quo.

[boots]

I think that generalizing a status quo as inherently better that the other one is why i disagree the most in these discussions.
I read good stories with both characters that were single and i read good stories with characters being married as well.I don´t think one is always better that the other one.To me that is just generalization.
Good stories can be done with either status quo,but from my humble opinion unless the lore of the character is deep in the theme of family as the Fantastic Four stories,the main character status quo is not that relevant.At least to the notion that only married characters can undergone growth.
The main character being single is not by itself a indication that his stories would be worst that if the character was married.It´s in this notion that i could not disagree more.
To make good stories i think it´s more complicated that just featuring a main character in a married status quo or a single status quo.

i don't think any status quo is unworkable, but they're not all equal. they work to varying degrees, inspire different stories or levels of excitement in creatives and audiences.

[wleakr]

I do think writing a married Spider-man is more challenging than single due to the types of stories he is usually involved in. Obviously, it can be done, because it has been for as long as it did. However, as I mentioned, the typical story just puts her on the sidelines or be a damsel.

These days, since she's linked with Stark, she has access to some tech which allowed her to be part of a story in a dynamic way, as Slott just did in "Go Down Swinging".

I think it all boils down to accessibility of the character. I think Marvel wants the brand of their flagship title Spider-man to be appealing to all ages. When I was a teen reading these mags, I understood the marriage concept. I read quite a number of books, including Fantastic Four, which focused on marriage and family and Spider-man, which really did not (except for the relationship with May and occasional relationship tries). I enjoyed both, but I never wanted to BE anyone in the FF. It was a cool read (which I eventually dropped when it no longer entertained me), but it wasn't as fun as Spider-man. Further, Spider-man made me want to play the video game, watch the cartoon or buy his toy. The FF never made me feel that way, although I'm sure they had a toy and I know they had a cartoon.

Spider-man, in his flagship, as a non-married hero does more for the brand at a larger demographic.

Marvel has now done the next best thing: A married Spider-man in RYV.

Just like any other company, Marvel keeps an eye on how products impact their bottom line.

I hear so much on this board about the importance of the marriage and restoring it. How so many customers preferred it and have moved on. Yet, this title is less than 20K and dropping. And the flagship continues to break records and perform well.

I don't even care about comparing it to OMD or pre-OMD or BND or any day other than NOW! If RYV was selling strong, Marvel would HAVE to take notice and think maybe this is a thing we should do (again)...

So, it's not only a matter of writing the character but will it SELL to write it that way? And can we tie those sales into the other business ventures linked to it?

Basic economics, if the benefits outweigh the costs, do it. Marvel doesn't see the benefit, but they are giving the fan base the opportunity (RYV) to prove otherwise.

[comicscollector]

i don't think any status quo is unworkable, but they're not all equal. they work to varying degrees, inspire different stories or levels of excitement in creatives and audiences.

Exactly.
Before Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 there was hundreds of great stories that had Spider-Man in a single status quo,and after OMD i read plenty of great stories with Spider-Man being single.And i read great stories with Spider-Man being married as well.And i read terrible stories with both status quo as well !
So this notion that a married Spider-Man is the only way to have good stories is something that i disagree with.

[Inversed]

Exactly.
Before Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 there was hundreds of great stories that had Spider-Man in a single status quo,and after OMD i read plenty of great stories with Spider-Man being single.And i read great stories with Spider-Man being married as well.And i read terrible stories with both status quo as well !
So this notion that a married Spider-Man is the only way to have good stories is something that i disagree with.

Yeah obviously, there has been so many damn good stories during Slott's run, even if you are upset how that one story ended, which you are allowed to be, you shouldn't diminish how great many of the others are. Though me personally, I feel the past 10 years has really lacked in any good relationship stories. It doesn't have to be marriage, I want to see Peter/Spider-Man in some kind of lasting relationship, because they bring out some of the sweetest moments and I've been missing that from the book.

[comicscollector]

Yeah obviously, there has been so many damn good stories during Slott's run, even if you are upset how that one story ended, which you are allowed to be, you shouldn't diminish how great many of the others are. Though me personally, I feel the past 10 years has really lacked in any good relationship stories. It doesn't have to be marriage, I want to see Peter/Spider-Man in some kind of lasting relationship, because they bring out some of the sweetest moments and I've been missing that from the book.

Peter not having a long lasting relationship ever since BND is indeed something that i think had been missing from the stories as well.
It was not that much of a big deal to me,because Peter Parker personal live have more or less be a bit complicated every time the character was single.
Thus why that did not bother me that much,but it´s something that i would like to read in the stories as long as it would be well writen.

[Inversed]

Peter not having a long lasting relationship ever since BND is indeed something that i think had been missing from the stories as well.
It was not that much of a big deal to me,because Peter Parker personal live have more or less be a bit complicated every time the character was single.
Thus why that did not bother me that much,but it´s something that i would like to read in the stories as long as it would be well writen.

Yeah that's exactly how I feel, there not being any relationships didn't take away from my enjoyment of all the arcs and stories that have come out since then, but I do wish we could get more of them.

[Scott Taylor]

Lois. Is. back. Almost. Immediately.

It serves no example.

Ok Captain Kirk!

[Miles To Go]

Ok Captain Kirk!

If you'd just waited a few days, you'd have still been able to make your point. Bendis revealed in an interview with Newsarama that Lois and Clark will be separated when she returns in Action Comics (though he says his "very special" 1004th issue of Action Comics will be his "positive statement" on the relationship)

[Daniel22]

or franchise fiction

I'll never understand why people who want long lasting shifts in the long term status quo and changes to the core conceit of the character continue to shop in the mainstream superhero aisle.

[boots]

I'll never understand why people who want long lasting shifts in the long term status quo and changes to the core conceit of the character continue to shop in the mainstream superhero aisle.

maybe the illusion of change was too overpowering

[WebLurker]

I'll never understand why people who want long lasting shifts in the long term status quo and changes to the core conceit of the character continue to shop in the mainstream superhero aisle.

Because they like the characters in the first place?

[boots]

Because they like the characters in the first place?

how do you see that being relevant?

i would say support for illusion of change or reboots or or permanent change would have little to do with how much they like the actual character

[Scott Taylor]

If you'd just waited a few days, you'd have still been able to make your point. Bendis revealed in an interview with Newsarama that Lois and Clark will be separated when she returns in Action Comics (though he says his "very special" 1004th issue of Action Comics will be his "positive statement" on the relationship)

Permanent status quo change or just temporary illusion of change I wonder?

I'll never understand why people who want long lasting shifts in the long term status quo and changes to the core conceit of the character continue to shop in the mainstream superhero aisle.

Those are two very different things. A status quo changed with Spider-Man when Gwen died, but the core character remained constant. Under Slott we had a status quo that shifted around almost as frequently as a granny driving a manual VW bug in San Francisco. But the character stayed the same

[boots]

Permanent status quo change or just temporary illusion of change I wonder?



Those are two very different things. A status quo changed with Spider-Man when Gwen died, but the core character remained constant. Under Slott we had a status quo that shifted around almost as frequently as a granny driving a manual VW bug in San Francisco. But the character stayed the same

i have feeling he means permanent as opposed to temporary, but i won't put words in his mouth

and while they can be different things, one can lead to another. a permanent and stark change in circumstance can result in a major character shift. some call it "growth" i guess