X-Men #20 Review *spoilers*

[Devaishwarya]

I've said it before...some of you should really pursue careers in comic book writing or just writing prose in general.

[Wolverine12]

Here’s my theory on the long game. Today we learned that humans have created their version of the resurrection protocols. Moira/Charles/Erik wanted Nimrod to come online to show humanity that they no longer had to fear going extinct due to mutants replacing them. They sent Mystique knowing she would fail, they created the law “kill no man” to show they don’t want to destroy humanity, during the process they still have to protect themselves obviously so X-Force is necessary. They are trying to avoid AI taking over because they end everything, not just the mutants. They are saving the humans from problems they don’t know exist yet.

[Devaishwarya]

That last sentence...is exactly what happens at the end of PoX.

By humanity foolishly pursuing their fear and hatred of mutants...they unknowingly end up ultimately sacrificing the entire of humanity to the Phalanx.

[Wolverine12]

That last sentence...is exactly what happens at the end of PoX.

By humanity foolishly pursuing their fear and hatred of mutants...they unknowingly end up ultimately sacrificing the entire of humanity to the Phalanx.

Yup that is why I think what I think.

[Slicknickshady]

Destiny can stay dead for all that I care. Mystique has done so many horrible things in her life why should I care?

[T'Challa Bruce Von Doom]

-Xavier and Magneto basically ignore Mystique plea to bring back Irene, So it is time for her to burn this thing down

This is omitting a pertinent detail:

Mystique: When I return successful... you will have my wife moved to the front of the resurrection queue?
Magneto: Of course.
Xavier: Like Erik said, we made a deal. Only your failure prevents its completion.

It was made very explicit that Irene's resurrection was contingent on Mystique's success.

Magneto: ...what happened?
Mystique: You back up my mind. You know what happened.
Magneto: We want to hear you say it.
Mystique: I... I... I failed.

She returned having failed.

Mystique: What about Irene?
Xavier: What about her?

Irene would be moved to the front of the resurrection queue upon Mystique's success. "Only your failure prevents its completion." This was explicitly stated up front. Mystique failed, so she's owed nothing.

[Outburstz]

Raven is a lot of things rational is not one of them. They should have never brought her back to life if they were not going to bring Destiny back to life.

Or if they did bring her back wipe her memory of Destiny at least

[Arsenal]

Here’s my theory on the long game. Today we learned that humans have created their version of the resurrection protocols. Moira/Charles/Erik wanted Nimrod to come online to show humanity that they no longer had to fear going extinct due to mutants replacing them. They sent Mystique knowing she would fail, they created the law “kill no man” to show they don’t want to destroy humanity, during the process they still have to protect themselves obviously so X-Force is necessary. They are trying to avoid AI taking over because they end everything, not just the mutants. They are saving the humans from problems they don’t know exist yet.

This does make sense, especially when it was established that sentinels are an inevitability,m. So the next logical step would be to try and control what they ultimately become.

[ZuLuLu]

This is omitting a pertinent detail:

Mystique: When I return successful... you will have my wife moved to the front of the resurrection queue?
Magneto: Of course.
Xavier: Like Erik said, we made a deal. Only your failure prevents its completion.

It was made very explicit that Irene's resurrection was contingent on Mystique's success.

Magneto: ...what happened?
Mystique: You back up my mind. You know what happened.
Magneto: We want to hear you say it.
Mystique: I... I... I failed.

She returned having failed.

Mystique: What about Irene?
Xavier: What about her?

Irene would be moved to the front of the resurrection queue upon Mystique's success. "Only your failure prevents its completion." This was explicitly stated up front. Mystique failed, so she's owed nothing.

This! Mystique failed to deliver on her part of the agreement.

That said I believe that Charles and Erik always intended for Mystique to fail the mission given that they had no intentions of resurrecting Irene.

[Rev9]

Given how nebulous the future can be plus how often Destiny has been wrong, fooled or mistaken, the diaries are a terrible source of future knowledge. Its laughable that Moira thinks its better than having multiple experienced precogs around.

Seriously, given that death has no meaning for the X-men now, there is absolutely no reason to not just outright attack this base that they're building Nimrod on. They wouldn't even have to worry about political considerations, since its in space and no one has any claim to it or even knows its there. Sending the likes of Vulcan, Magneto, or Exodus and just crushing the whole thing or shoving it into the sun would work much, much better. And given that their solution was a BLACK HOLE, you can't even say they didn't want to just kill everybody there. Its pure bad writing all around with this situation.

Kind of in response to what FluffyCyclops said, maybe Moira is just bad at all of this? Maybe her deaths aren't really because mutants always lose and humans always hate humans, but she's just an arrogant twat who is bad at planning and manipulating people and doesn't think things through.

I am beginning to think the diaries themselves, written by Irene (presuming Irene foresaw that Moira would get them)were written precisely in a manner to let Raven get her revenge.Precisely because Xavier admits they have other monsters could mean Irene in her diaries wrote something like Raven would successfully breach Orchis forge thrice, the first time to plant the gate, the second time to perhaps kill Alia(yet she didn't) and the third to shut down Nimrod(she failed).Knowing that so far twice the diaries have been proven correct up till that point if they were vague enough to be applicable but not detailed enough to reveal the misdirection, means that Xavier and Magnus are too reliant on Moira feeding them the future 'guideline' to rely on anyone like Vulcan,Exodus or Magneto himself.It could be Irene leading them by the nose because she foresaw that they would put so much stock in her diaries.It reinforces my belief that she assured Mystique how to proceed, because she can see all their steps or missteps before they even make them and is only to happy to help them make those missteps.

[Exodus]

This whole charade with Mystique comes across a little dumb. Honestly. They should have probably never accepted Mystique being part of Krakoa if they want to play her that way. Now they have to come up with all those flimsy excuses why Irene is the only mutant that is not getting resurrected...you have to earn that your wife will return. That is just so brutal. I really start to dislike Magneto, Xavier and Moira. They must be the three most unlikable X-Men in the history of X-Men comics (besides Beast).

Krakoa makes a lot of enemies "within" these days: Sabretooth, Shaw, Mystique, Destiny, Cortez. Maybe here we have a new powerful mutant villain team in the making!

[superjosh]

It was much easier to handwave explanations for why they didn't just dive in and slaughter their enemies back in the Claremont days. They didn't know where they were, they didn't WANT to kill them, they didn't have the manpower or strong enough people on their side, they didn't really know what their plan/deal was, they didn't want to get innocent people involved, the bad guys control a country and they can't start a war. All of these kinds of things.

Here, they know where their enemies are. They know their plan is to build a super genocide robot and they've already taken extreme measures to stop it. Their enemies are in space and won't involve any outsiders. They're willing to kill everyone on board the station (with a method that will immediately attract attention from Earth, I might add). They have all of the most powerful mutants ever, including some who have conquered galaxies and ended civilizations. And there's no reason to be worried about their own safety, since they can just respawn back on Krakoa.

There is zero reason for subtlety and subterfuge here. This is the moment where you make your big stand and just invade.

That's why my biggest problem with the issue was Forge just casually creating a black hole bomb. Like I said in an earlier post, shit like that is a slippery slope. I love Hickman's writing and plots, but the way he sometimes just drops game-changers like they're nothing does get a little irritating. If Forge can do something like that, then every story from now on will have a plot hole and be like, well why didn't Forge just...

[Frobisher]

That's why my biggest problem with the issue was Forge just casually creating a black hole bomb. Like I said in an earlier post, shit like that is a slippery slope. I love Hickman's writing and plots, but the way he sometimes just drops game-changers like they're nothing does get a little irritating. If Forge can do something like that, then every story from now on will have a plot hole and be like, well why didn't Forge just...

I think the obvious limitation to this would be how Forge got hold of the exotic matter to build the weapon. Possibly he acquired it via Shi’ar or other sources, but then you’d have to expect that space faring civilisations would treat anyone looking for the materials to build a singularity or antimatter weapon either same extreme gravity (ahem) that real world countries treat anyone looking to get hold of weapons grade plutonium. You don’t want your Type I civilisations going around building the space equivalent of a suitcase nuke.

[Toonstrack]

So...we wait to see just how the story plays out.
Maybe some of your questions may be answered...chances are, some most likely will not be answered.

That's how comics work. How comics have always worked. We suspend our disbelief and follow the story to see where it goes.

Every story could be resolved in a matter of seconds. Monarch and Proteus and Molecule Man could snap their fingers, wiggle their nose, fart, and change the very fabric of reality to suit their purpose, why don't they?

Look i dont disagree with that in principle but there's a line. Again its one thing if the series is just a fun romp of action sequences but this series in particular has been incredibly meticulous on every detail we need. They spent like 5 panels explaining how Nimrod was going to contain a black hole for example.

So naturally in that state of mind people start to think logicaly about the things. Maybe they don't know if the Nimrod algorithm is backed up and don't wanna set that off? Maybe they don't wanna attract the eyes of the avengers? No clue but its a little too late ot start handwaving. Who knows maybe they'll explain it? I can jury rig and explanation given time. Its just one of those things that begins to stick out. Honestly I can chalk it under them BSing Mystique by telling her this is a "test" for her to "earn" what she wants. But still even

[Toonstrack]

This does make sense, especially when it was established that sentinels are an inevitability,m. So the next logical step would be to try and control what they ultimately become.

This is another thing. Given that we know that Xavier can place mental blockers in peoples minds to literally prevent them from thinking up things.... you get where I'm going here?