Controversial Superman Opinions

[Kuwagaton]

I'm sure when Joe Shuster first drew his Superman, he thought his was rather muscular. And when Curt Swan drew his Superman, I'm sure he thought he had made him a bit bigger than was realistic.

I love that Swan drew way back when people thought large mid sections with average limbs looked strong.

Ugh...Ed Mcguinness' Superman.

This excessively stylized depiction always comes up and I'm not sure why. It's such an extreme. People will load Superman with muscles but just about no one takes it this far. But I still prefer it to Superman looking like he's holding a ton of water. I wish Quitely went more along the lines of Flex Mentallo, but I do give points overall for the lumbering oafish Clark.

For costume and physique, I like Gary Frank. He looked very regular but you could see this guy as capable in the event that he lost his powers.

Then why isn't Kara the size of an amazon at the age of 16? She's usually depicted as being a petite or athletic girl of average height.

I give Jurgens "credit" for drawing the earliest depictions of a physically strong Superman that slid into highly sculpted. But when Jurgens Drew teen Clark, he made him look very average. On the other hand, New 52 Kara looked very much like a gymnast under Asrar and Rocafort. I could see a guidebook describing the character models as peak athlete.

[Jim Kelly]

This is Gene Kiniski--


When I was a kid in the '60s, watching Maple Leaf Wrestling with my Dad, Gene was the meanest, toughest, strongest man alive. He was our hero. To me, this has always been what a real tough guy looks like.

[ComicFan70]

His N52 armor should be used when a situation is 'iffy', otherwise I still like the classic suit

Keep him hyper intelligent (as he has been written), contribute to scientific problems, and be a scientist as time, but he knows Barry Allen, Ray Palmer to an extent Bruce are the 'goto' guys.

Kal-El can do everything the League does by himself but having others around 'like' he is (powered) remind him he's not the only 'super' man, that others can be places he sometimes can't

Not sure why dogs evolved on Krypton as they did on Earth, but keep Krypto, he is a nice 'reminder of better days' with his parents, learning his powers, etc...

I do like the idea his powers were not 'all at once' the idea behind 'getting one's powers, dealing with them, using them for good' may be a trope, but I've always liked it.

I do like the idea that Kal-El can kill, and has, but it's if absolutely no other choice.

I like the married Kal-El, the son Jon (possibly meeting at some point Connor or Superboy-Prime)

I WAS NOT a fan of N52, hence why I believe the Kryptonian bio-armor suit should be an extra line of defense.)

NO colors of Kryptonite - it's green.

Should still be susceptible to magic items, magical heroes and magic users. Should possibly have some sort of psychic shield against telepaths, as most Marvel's X-Men have to a degree.

As far as drawing him, I forget now who it was, but when he was drawn a lot leaner, more like Christopher Reeves' Superman was in the films, I really thought as an alien why should he look EXACTLY like a human, and have a human's muscular physique? He gets his strength/power from sunlight, he doesn't NEED to be a bodybuilder.

[Flash Gordon]

I hate when Superman loses his powers and is suddenly the weakest man on Earth.

He's still 6'6 and 220+, he can handle himself fine. He also wouldn't just forget how to fight and land a knock out. Superman always uses his size, he'd still do that.

Especially when he's drawn super muscular and over the top! I'm fine with that, 100%, but don't tell me that guy is going to fall to pieces under a red sun.

[Red obin]

I don't like Kon-el, he is dull and uninteresting especially in young justice. He was at his best when he was a corny in the 90's.(Even if he was not thought to be corny at the time he is fun to read now)

[Ascended]

Especially when he's drawn super muscular and over the top! I'm fine with that, 100%, but don't tell me that guy is going to fall to pieces under a red sun.

The red sun thing pisses me off.

Clark's got too many weaknesses. Kryptonite? Okay, that one is fine, though I generally prefer there to only be green K as I feel the other colors cheapen the poignancy of the concept.

Magic? It's stupid to say that Clark is naturally weak to magic. What, did ancient Krypton piss off a wizard at some point, and that wizard cursed the entire race to suck with all things arcane? It's dumb. Any reasonably powerful spell should hurt Clark just like any reasonably powerful energy blast would, but the idea that some college kid with half an ounce of talent and a Magic of Dummies spellbook bought from the bargain bin of Madam Xanadu's shop can stop the Man of Tomorrow in his tracks? Stupid as f**k.

Red sun? That one annoys me the most. If anything it should just prevent Clark from absorbing more energy. It should be a timer, not a weakness. "Okay Superman, you're under a red sun so you wont be replacing the solar power you've got. Use your powers wisely." That's all it should be, and considering that Superman will go days and weeks in space or underground, he's not likely to burn that energy out quickly.

[stephens2177]

I don't like Kon-el, he is dull and uninteresting especially in young justice. He was at his best when he was a corny in the 90's.(Even if he was not thought to be corny at the time he is fun to read now)

He was considered the coolest guy in the room,but also the dorkiest easily,just depended on the situation.

The problem with newer versions of Kon is that they forget he was loved because of his attitude,and that's the one thing they can't seem to translate into a new version,they all need to be dumb jock types,emotionless weapons,or angry dudes,none give.you the same feeling as the first.You would follow him into any cool adventure,because of who he was,not just because a big S was on his chest.

[Vanguard-01]

The red sun thing pisses me off.

Clark's got too many weaknesses. Kryptonite? Okay, that one is fine, though I generally prefer there to only be green K as I feel the other colors cheapen the poignancy of the concept.

Magic? It's stupid to say that Clark is naturally weak to magic. What, did ancient Krypton piss off a wizard at some point, and that wizard cursed the entire race to suck with all things arcane? It's dumb. Any reasonably powerful spell should hurt Clark just like any reasonably powerful energy blast would, but the idea that some college kid with half an ounce of talent and a Magic of Dummies spellbook bought from the bargain bin of Madam Xanadu's shop can stop the Man of Tomorrow in his tracks? Stupid as f**k.

Red sun? That one annoys me the most. If anything it should just prevent Clark from absorbing more energy. It should be a timer, not a weakness. "Okay Superman, you're under a red sun so you wont be replacing the solar power you've got. Use your powers wisely." That's all it should be, and considering that Superman will go days and weeks in space or underground, he's not likely to burn that energy out quickly.

Yeah, I used to like the plethora of weaknesses, until I began to notice just how ridiculously often they are used. They really have become a crutch for writers. "Need a cheap way to take down Superman? Red sunlight! Magic! Yay!"

I definitely agree on the red sunlight thing. It doesn't take his energy away, it just means he's not getting any more. Thankfully, Justice League Action did it right in a recent episode. Steppenwolf took Superman to a red sun planet, and it was made clear to us that Superman had his powers, he was just burning through his solar reserves as he fought. Even still, the episode showed Superman as being completely competent and capable of beating Steppenwolf even without his powers. It was a fantastic showing for Superman. Batman and Big Barda didn't really affect his victory at all. They basically just opened a Boom Tube to let him come back home again. He beat Steppenwolf all by himself.

Heck, these days, writers don't even need to fall back on Superman's weaknesses when they want to take him down. Now they just BS up some new plot contrivance and down he goes. Killer Frost can suddenly suck the sunlight right out of his cells. Natch. What was the name of that pet character Gail Simone had in Secret Six? The one who controls metal? Of COURSE Superman is literally made of steel, dontcha know? So of COURSE she was able to crumple him up like a beer can, to the point where it was made perfectly clear to us that he was as good as dead if Ralph Dibny didn't tell her to stop effortlessly killing Superman.

So yeah. Superman's weaknesses can disappear any time now. Most of them anyway.

[Kuwagaton]

the idea that some college kid with half an ounce of talent and a Magic of Dummies spellbook bought from the bargain bin of Madam Xanadu's shop can stop the Man of Tomorrow in his tracks?

Are there any examples that come to mind? Thinking about amateur magic causing problems, all I can remember is the JLU episode where those kids summon Grundy. Everything else seems really high level and not especially effective.

But I do like the weaknesses. Especially kooky ones like colorful kryptonite, which are most effective at harming the tendency for the stories to take themselves too seriously. I liked the weakening he experienced when dealing with Kanjar Ro under the red sun, and the similar problem he had on his adventure with Zibarro. I find magic utterly wimpy and cheap, so I like to see Superman overcome it.

This is Gene Kiniski--


When I was a kid in the '60s, watching Maple Leaf Wrestling with my Dad, Gene was the meanest, toughest, strongest man alive. He was our hero. To me, this has always been what a real tough guy looks like.

I see. No doubt others would have commonly agreed because Superman was definitely casted in that mold.

[Osiris-Rex]

This is Gene Kiniski--


When I was a kid in the '60s, watching Maple Leaf Wrestling with my Dad, Gene was the meanest, toughest, strongest man alive. He was our hero. To me, this has always been what a real tough guy looks like.

Superman's costume was supposed to look like a wrestler. Hence the red trunks. Batman too. But as a way to make fun of superheroes when the Batman TV show aired, comedians started to say Batman
wore his underwear on the outside. Eventually in the public's eye, Superman was also wearing his underwear on the outside. There is even a cartoon movie coming out called "Captain Underpants" with a
superhero that trots around in his tidy whities. So in an effort to take away the stigma of a superhero running around in his underwear, Superman (and Batman) dropped his trunks.

[Ascended]

Are there any examples that come to mind? Thinking about amateur magic causing problems, all I can remember is the JLU episode where those kids summon Grundy. Everything else seems really high level and not especially effective.

No examples come to mind at the moment (all I got are vague recollections), and that statement was somewhat hyperbolic in the first place, for effect.

But the weakness doesnt make sense. If a force is appropriately powerful it should hurt Clark. If its not appropriately powerful then it shouldnt. I have no problem with the idea that some forms of magic bypass his natural abilities. That's fine. But why should it bypass Clark's, but not J'onn? Shazam and Diana, I can see them having a degree of resistance and/or immunity to magic given the nature of their powers, but there's no reason a blast of magic energy should hurt Clark more than it does J'onn, or Barry, or Hal.

But I do like the weaknesses. Especially kooky ones like colorful kryptonite, which are most effective at harming the tendency for the stories to take themselves too seriously. I liked the weakening he experienced when dealing with Kanjar Ro under the red sun, and the similar problem he had on his adventure with Zibarro. I find magic utterly wimpy and cheap, so I like to see Superman overcome it.

That's maybe the single best argument for multi-colored kryptonite I have ever heard, actually.

[Sacred Knight]

The red sun thing pisses me off.

Clark's got too many weaknesses. Kryptonite? Okay, that one is fine, though I generally prefer there to only be green K as I feel the other colors cheapen the poignancy of the concept.

Magic? It's stupid to say that Clark is naturally weak to magic. What, did ancient Krypton piss off a wizard at some point, and that wizard cursed the entire race to suck with all things arcane? It's dumb. Any reasonably powerful spell should hurt Clark just like any reasonably powerful energy blast would, but the idea that some college kid with half an ounce of talent and a Magic of Dummies spellbook bought from the bargain bin of Madam Xanadu's shop can stop the Man of Tomorrow in his tracks? Stupid as f**k.

Red sun? That one annoys me the most. If anything it should just prevent Clark from absorbing more energy. It should be a timer, not a weakness. "Okay Superman, you're under a red sun so you wont be replacing the solar power you've got. Use your powers wisely." That's all it should be, and considering that Superman will go days and weeks in space or underground, he's not likely to burn that energy out quickly.

As usual, Ascended be preachin'.

[adkal]

Ugh...Ed Mcguinness' Superman.

Wasn't so different to his Nightwing...

Nightwing_Vol_2_62.jpg

[adkal]

Other than Byrne era Superman usually has quite a bit of Superstrength and healing early on,

Byrne-Supes was strong and had enhanced healing from childhood - he lifts a truck, comes away from being trampled by a bull unscathed, and heals from a broken arm in about a week. Although Clark has numerous thoughts about how he 'wasn't as strong' when he was younger, and especially until he left high school, the depictions show otherwise. In my opinion, it seems more like he had a mental block on his higher level strength and speed until he realised he could fly, which is inline with Byrne's approach of the abilities being psionic in nature.

[adkal]

I hate when Superman loses his powers and is suddenly the weakest man on Earth.

One of the reasons why I liked how he was depicted in JLA: Foreign Bodies - no powers, human, and takes down a high-ranking fighter (and someone Batman considers to be one of the most dangerous men in the world).

Especially when he's drawn super muscular and over the top! I'm fine with that, 100%, but don't tell me that guy is going to fall to pieces under a red sun.

Agreed - the red sun = I can barely move or even speak... whatever. The initial part of the Return to Krypton storyline had it better - powers were there but would decrease the more he used them (understandable). Being on Krypton he would be 'more human' when depowered than he would be on Earth (where 'powerless' should still be 1938/Aquaman level), and even without powers he should still be athletic and acrobatic (as he was in Fate's Tower in JLA: Virtue and Vice)