OMD, 10 Years Later--Was It Worth It?

[farmernudie]

And this is the really the core of it. The story was bad. Bad concept, bad execution, bad writing. The civil war lead-up to it was bad... The whole thing illogical. There's really only so much it can be defended

And we can completely agree on that!!


And i think that is what i am trying to say with the Spawn comparison, that one is written a lot better than the Spidey/Devil Deal Story. While Spawn is NOT one of my very favorite comics, his devil deal is written better in that there is closure and he is portrayed more heroically where i personally find Pete's to be more cowardly and insulting and selfish. Spawn worked to really be a HERO by defeating the devil and the deal somehow. Pete is the devil's lap dog. Big difference. Pete has lost, in this world, period. His poor soul is crying out it says.

Not to mention, everything since OMD is a world owed to the "Devil" and the devil deal. I think Marvel needs to "end" that story with some sort of closure, even if it doesn't bring back the marriage, just so we don't have this ongoing "OMD World" where everyone owes their lives and this ongoing direction to Ultimate Evil.

And who is to say the devil keeps his promise and things work out like he said in his "Deal"? In most literary avenues, a devil deal is NEVER a good thing and always unravels in some sort of horrible unseen way. It bothers me that Mephisto suddenly keeps his promises and isnt lying. But again, the bad writing.

[UnknownEntity]

And we can completely agree on that!!


And i think that is what i am trying to say with the Spawn comparison, that one is written a lot better than the Spidey/Devil Deal Story. While Spawn is NOT one of my very favorite comics, his devil deal is written better in that there is closure and he is portrayed more heroically where i personally find Pete's to be more cowardly and insulting and selfish. Spawn worked to really be a HERO by defeating the devil and the deal somehow. Pete is the devil's lap dog. Big difference. Pete has lost, in this world, period. His poor soul is crying out it says.

Not to mention, everything since OMD is a world owed to the "Devil" and the devil deal. I think Marvel needs to "end" that story with some sort of closure, even if it doesn't bring back the marriage, just so we don't have this ongoing "OMD World" where everyone owes their lives and this ongoing direction to Ultimate Evil.

And who is to say the devil keeps his promise and things work out like he said in his "Deal"? In most literary avenues, a devil deal is NEVER a good thing and always unravels in some sort of horrible unseen way. It bothers me that Mephisto suddenly keeps his promises and isnt lying. But again, the bad writing.

In Spawn, the devil deal is center to the character's story whereas the same is not true for Spider Man whose own tryst with the demonic Mephisto was just outrageous.

We call post OMD ASM the Mephistoverse. The closure they thought they brought to the story was the equally terrible One Moment in Time. They need to address this and bring back the spider marriage because that was the whole point of OMD. What use is resolving or closing in on OMD without the restoration of the one thing the entire story was designed to take.

Mephisto is an interdimensional demon inspired by the Faustian demon Mephistopheles who also had dealings with the Devil Satan himself. This guy in Marvel Comics has also been referred to as Lucifer, Satan and the Prince of Darkness. All titles and names synonymous with the actual devil. Whether he is or is not the devil, his role in the MU is basically to serve as the Marvel Universe's depiction of the devil and no matter of nitpicking will undo that.

[farmernudie]

In Spawn, the devil deal is center to the character's story whereas the same is not true for Spider Man whose own tryst with the demonic Mephisto was just outrageous.

We call post OMD ASM the Mephistoverse. The closure they thought they brought to the story was the equally terrible One Moment in Time. They need to address this and bring back the spider marriage because that was the whole point of OMD. What use is resolving or closing in on OMD without the restoration of the one thing the entire story was designed to take.

Mephisto is an interdimensional demon inspired by the Faustian demon Mephistopheles who also had dealings with the Devil Satan himself. This guy in Marvel Comics has also been referred to as Lucifer, Satan and the Prince of Darkness. All titles and names synonymous with the actual devil. Whether he is or is not the devil, his role in the MU is basically to serve as the Marvel Universe's depiction of the devil and no matter of nitpicking will undo that.

Oh i fully agree!!

And yes, the devil deal in Spawn in central to the over all character. The devil deal in OMD is central for creating this ongoing universe for Spidey and Aunt May and MJ and everyone, however, they just happen to ignore their own central premise for creating the current line. It's there in the spaghetti sauce, they just want us to conveniently forget that it's in there tho.

And i read old comics all the time, and yes, they have always used him in the Marvel Universe as the Devil or Satan or whathaveyou....in old FF titles of the comics, Daredevil, and many others, and in many ways he is for whatever purpose marvel's "Devil". Joe Q. in interviews (and others) have stated for all intents and purposes yes he is marvel's devil. Then after the devil deal deal, there have been some that suddenly want to debate/argue he is NOT, yet, it was never argued previously lol

Mephistoverse....i like that!

[murderousjohnny]

Yes. Hell yes. Can't wait until people barely even remembers this thing. We already have a whole new generation of comic book readers since Brand New Day and I couldn't be happier with how Dan is handling Spidey now and moving forward. He earned to become my favorite Spider-Man writer and I couldn't be more excited with what happens next.

You say that but its proof that nothing is sacred. Like continuity is dead forever. Maybe I'm being over dramatic but it shows how much they care. Imagined if they OMD'd dan's run. In a post omd world it's possible at any given moment. It's gonna happen again eventually.

[UnknownEntity]

You say that but its proof that nothing is sacred. Like continuity is dead forever. Maybe I'm being over dramatic but it shows how much they care. Imagined if they OMD'd dan's run. In a post omd world it's possible at any given moment. It's gonna happen again eventually.

Agree with that sentiment. With OMD, Spider Man continuity became relative and can be altered and twisted in any way Marvel desires regardless of consistency or plausibility. It eliminated the possibility of long term and siginicant relationship with characters, be they friends or love interests and whenever something does happen they bring Spidey back to square one. That is the promise of OMD.

[Vixx]

Oh please. Peter Parker making a literal deal with the devil for whatever reason, even saving a life is horrid. The lesson that instills is: kids, its okay to make faustian pacts with the devil if it means you save a life. Aunt May was begging for Peter to let her go and finally be with Uncle Ben cause that woman really should've stayed dead in ASM 400. Aunt May is what's unnecessary, not the spider marriage. You also forget that by choosing his dear old Aunt May, he also killed his own daughter before ever being born. He chose the past over the future, like a little kid who couldn't live without his mommy despite being a full grown man with his entire life ahead of him. Aunt May would never ever in a million years ever forgive Peter for doing that even to save her life and killing his daughter before she had a chance to draw breath. Satanism and Filicide all in one go. You can argue that Peter didn't know about killing his own daughter but that goes to show not to trust devil deals and how stupid and out of character Peter was through the entirety of those four issues.

I totally agree with this -

There are 3 sides to OMD

1) the poor story that had a gun to the writers head

2) the reaction - which may have been less harsh if it had just been done better.. More honestly.

3) the editors / corp - who rammed this idea through after failing to do the same in 2 or 3 previous arcs that were pretty bad in their own right... It was done at such a high cost; with a basket of other stories that were released so close and similarly damaging to core elements. Ramming this through upended the book, when it didn't have too.

When we talk about the book needing new blood; it's not the creative team that's the problem IMO. Spidey is up and down over the years - but it's struggled mightily under this editorial reign. Personally - the quality (but safe) arcs we've gotten are a testament to the skill of the creatives. I really liked superior (for example).

It's so weird to me that with so many universes and spider beings - we fight about 616 to the death; but what they spent decades to unravel still exists in other, pretty mainstream ways.

Yea .. I'm invested ...I would choose top ramen and ASM over lunch when I was in college; or drive a town over on my bike as a kid to pick up the latest adventures. Again - it's not the premise it's the execution.

[UnknownEntity]

I totally agree with this -

There are 3 sides to OMD

1) the poor story that had a gun to the writers head

2) the reaction - which may have been less harsh if it had just been done better.. More honestly.

3) the editors / corp - who rammed this idea through after failing to do the same in 2 or 3 previous arcs that were pretty bad in their own right... It was done at such a high cost; with a basket of other stories that were released so close and similarly damaging to core elements. Ramming this through upended the book, when it didn't have too.

When we talk about the book needing new blood; it's not the creative team that's the problem IMO. Spidey is up and down over the years - but it's struggled mightily under this editorial reign. Personally - the quality (but safe) arcs we've gotten are a testament to the skill of the creatives. I really liked superior (for example).

It's so weird to me that with so many universes and spider beings - we fight about 616 to the death; but what they spent decades to unravel still exists in other, pretty mainstream ways.

Yea .. I'm invested ...I would choose top ramen and ASM over lunch when I was in college; or drive a town over on my bike as a kid to pick up the latest adventures. Again - it's not the premise it's the execution.

For me it was both premise and execution. It was utterly unnecessary. OMD was designed with the intent to eliminate the spider marriage because to them it felt that Spidey was less relatable, which was wrong. Married Spider Man prevents only one thing, other love interests. The rest is valid and possible. They tried to undo the spider marriage twice before. First in Clone Saga when they wanted to replace Peter with Ben Reilly and then with the attempted murder of Mary Jane in the infamous plane crash during the Mackie era.

JMS knew that OMD would happen at the very beginning of his run. His entire run, he wrote it knowing it would be for naught. His writing in OMD was so heavily rewritten by Quesada that he asked that his name not be included in the credits because those weren't his words anymore.

Marvel has indoctrinated its readership to prioritize mainline titles and consistent continuity which is why AU's tend to be underplayed against the canonicity of the main MU.

[Vixx]

For me it was both premise and execution. It was utterly unnecessary. OMD was designed with the intent to eliminate the spider marriage because to them it felt that Spidey was less relatable, which was wrong. Married Spider Man prevents only one thing, other love interests. The rest is valid and possible. They tried to undo the spider marriage twice before. First in Clone Saga when they wanted to replace Peter with Ben Reilly and then with the attempted murder of Mary Jane in the infamous plane crash during the Mackie era.

JMS knew that OMD would happen at the very beginning of his run. His entire run, he wrote it knowing it would be for naught. His writing in OMD was so heavily rewritten by Quesada that he asked that his name not be included in the credits because those weren't his words anymore.

Marvel has indoctrinated its readership to prioritize mainline titles and consistent continuity which is why AU's tend to be underplayed against the canonicity of the main MU.

For me - i trust the creatives and managers to do what's right... Anything is on the table... So I'm not as worried about the premise; because if they die, get ripped apart, etc - they can always come back.

This was like Gretchen trying her damnest to make Fetch work... the story just wasn't great for Spiderman... And kind of broke the "do no harm" rule when you are a custodian of a 50 year old title.

I feel for JMS - 40% of my day to day is those kind of fights.. (Brawls really), on behalf of 60+ Creative folks that put them selves out there every day... To an audience that distill the effort down to a word or two.

I don't always love the stories, but I'd struggle to think of a writer (maybe Byrne) that simply didn't care, or understand, about the charectors and book from a fans view, you can see the heavy handed change in direction when the editors changed.

I wish the current creatives the best - but it will be hard to win me over with more clone and single Peter stories - unless they are so novel that they simply wouldn't exist with the old dynamic.

I do wish they'd get a new editor on the book - someone who can balance the corp bs with what fans can relate to in 2017. Personally - I'd nominate our current writer; I briefly talked to him once - left an impression. Wonder what he could do if he fully controlled the narrative; married Peter or no.

[UnknownEntity]

For me - i trust the creatives and managers to do what's right... Anything is on the table... So I'm not as worried about the premise; because if they die, get ripped apart, etc - they can always come back.

I wish the current creatives the best - but it will be hard to win me over with more clone and single Peter stories - unless they are so novel that they simply wouldn't exist with the old dynamic.

I do wish they'd get a new editor on the book - someone who can balance the corp bs with what fans can relate to in 2017. Personally - I'd nominate our current writer; I briefly talked to him once - left an impression. Wonder what he could do if he fully controlled the narrative; married Peter or no.

It was the creatives and managers who did OMD in the first place. I just want a new writer, editor and all around creative team for ASM.

[Dangerous]

Hopefully once Dan Slott leaves, a new creative team will come along and retcon OMD and reinstate the marriage.

I think what Marvel's master plan COULD be, is that 10-15 years from now when Tom Holland retires from the films, and perhaps when we hit ASM#1000....
IF the stars all line up like that, Marvel might attempt to permanently retire PP and have Miles Morales take over as the only Spider-Man in the MCU and comics. By that point Miles will probably be popular enough through multi media appearances, and it will allow Peter Parker's story to be completed.

IF that were the case, then Marvel would not worry about Peter appearing too old by him being married for years in print because it would aid in retiring him... And then y'know, when we reach the year 2099...

[murderousjohnny]

Jesus 10-15 years so much can change. I doubt it'd be that extreme but I can see miles being one of the few new characters to survive this current Era. I think I'd be down with a status quo like that. It's basically similar to when ultimate was running along side 616. One with kid spider and one with man spider. Makes me wonder if marvel has plans to age miles in to adult hood.

[Dangerous]

Down with what? Permanently retiring Pete?

[murderousjohnny]

Down with what? Permanently retiring Pete?

Like with Peter being adult spider man and mile being kid spiderman. Or even old man spiderman and young spiderman. I doubt they'd go as far as perminently retiring him. It be like retiring Mickey mouse or superman.

[farmernudie]

Well, if Miles ever ages, and/or gets married, he can just leave a quarter underneath his bedtime pillow and the Marriage Fairy will come along and Mephisto it away lol

For now, Marvel will try to keep them both kids i guess with no aging mandates.

[UnknownEntity]

Miles Morales is the new hip racially diverse teen Spider Man that Marvel so desperately wants.

Peter Parker is the legendary classic Spider Man who is a full grown adult and can progress properly now that the role of a young Spider Man has been fulfilled.

Now if only someone other than Bendis would write Miles cause he's not doing Miles any favors. Bendis makes his characters too flawless like he wants them to supplant Stan Lee's classics which is a practical impossibility.