ASM #2 preview

[Tabs]

Better than the first issue.

Oh no. What was delayed this time?

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/42-c...ved-for-later/

[Mister Mets]

Possibilities for this

1. There's been a rewrite somewhere (hence the month long delay)
2. They decided an appearance might cheapen the impact of Moira Jane, or the maximum impact would have been lost because people may assume it is just Moira

There are simple explanations that don't require anyone lying about delays, or any behind the scenes turmoil about big changed plans.

One factor is that Marvel doesn't care as much about the spider-marriage/ Peter & MJ's relationship as some of the fans do. So they'll think the cover is fine. At some point in this arc, there will be scenes with Mary Jane, so they think it doesn't matter as much if it happens this issue and/ or they may think the cover helps understand Peter's mindset.

Covers tend to be released before the interiors are finished, so it may not be a rewrite as much as the published comic being a bit different than they figured it would be a few months ago. It could be that a fight scene was a bit longer, or they thought this was the right time to focus on Norman Osborn.

The truth is likely that it's both these things. The people at Marvel aren't invested in Peter & MJ's relationship the way some readers are, and don't realize that some readers will be really pissed off at a cover that touches on an issue they care about.

[Matt Rat]

The people at Marvel aren't invested in Peter & MJ's relationship the way some readers are

Everything they've done the last several years proves that to be categorically false.

Isn't Dan Slott even devoting his 60th anniversary story to Peter and MJ?

[Lunala]

MJ?

If Marvel cared as much about MJ as the fans did, the main couple wouldn't have broken up in the first place, staff would not have pushed other love interests, and this reference would not have been made.
.

[PCN24454]

If Marvel cared as much about MJ as the fans did, the main couple wouldn't have broken up in the first place, staff would not have pushed other love interests, and this reference would not have been made.

I know. It's honestly kinda annoying how much she gets talked about. It's as though this is a telenovela rather than a superhero comic.

[Ursalink]

Better than the first issue.


https://bleedingcool.com/comics/42-c...ved-for-later/

I understand we live in a very unstable world now, but if they can't give me a way to help me hold myself together, then I need to smash something!!!

[TinkerSpider]

The people at Marvel aren't invested in Peter & MJ's relationship the way some readers are, and don't realize that some readers will be really pissed off at a cover that touches on an issue they care about.

Marvel has only one mandate: make a profit while creating intellectual property Disney can exploit.

To that end, they absolutely, positively, definitely know Mary Jane sells comics. They put her on variant covers. She shows up in stories when they need a boost in interest and sales. They dangle her to create buzz. I’ve done pretty thorough searches on Twitter (which, granted, is only a microcosm but still) and nearly all the references to ASM #2, from the time the issue was solicited to now, are about the cover and not so much the actual story.

Marvel knows what they are doing.

Are they “invested” in the relationship in that there is an emotional connection and they ship/don’t ship the characters? No. They could not care less.

Are they invested from the point of view that putting MJ on covers and dangling her in front of readers prints money? Yes.

They know what they are doing. And the editor’s letter in ASM 1 - assuring they have answers for MJ and Paul and the kids - confirms they realize how fans react when it comes to touching on MJ. And they are going to bait that hook and troll readers by showing them the MJ football and then snatching it away at the last minute ad infinitum.

If Marvel wasn’t fully invested in making money off MJ fans, they would write her out of the book and never mention her again.

I’m firmly in the camp that the cover was created before Wells actually broke his story down into issues, and the MJ story beat and maybe other story beats were shifted around. He obviously thought it was more important to establish Peter’s and Norman’s new status quo than Peter’s and MJ’s. And maybe Wells and editorial made a decision after ASM #1 was turned in that it was better to let the MJ thing remain a mystery and they didn’t have to go into the specifics of the breakup.

But I also firmly believe they knew they would receive blowback. They get blowback every time a cover baits and switches, which is not exactly uncommon.

I know. It's honestly kinda annoying how much she gets talked about. It's as though this is a telenovela rather than a superhero comic.

Or maybe it’s as if superhero comics are nothing but serialized stories for a mostly male audience, just as soap operas are serialized stories aimed at a mostly female audience, but they both focus on characters navigating an idealized, fantastical world - which includes their relationships with others.

[wleakr]

Marvel has only one mandate: make a profit while creating intellectual property Disney can exploit.

To that end, they absolutely, positively, definitely know Mary Jane sells comics. They put her on variant covers. She shows up in stories when they need a boost in interest and sales. They dangle her to create buzz. I’ve done pretty thorough searches on Twitter (which, granted, is only a microcosm but still) and nearly all the references to ASM #2, from the time the issue was solicited to now, are about the cover and not so much the actual story.

Marvel knows what they are doing.

Are they “invested” in the relationship in that there is an emotional connection and they ship/don’t ship the characters? No. They could not care less.

Are they invested from the point of view that putting MJ on covers and dangling her in front of readers prints money? Yes.

They know what they are doing. And the editor’s letter in ASM 1 - assuring they have answers for MJ and Paul and the kids - confirms they realize how fans react when it comes to touching on MJ. And they are going to bait that hook and troll readers by showing them the MJ football and then snatching it away at the last minute ad infinitum.

If Marvel wasn’t fully invested in making money off MJ fans, they would write her out of the book and never mention her again.

I don't see anything inaccurate about what you've stated. Marvel is doing exactly as it should to make a profit on its properties.

If fans don't care for it, as always, vote with your wallet. However, it seems no matter how "good" or "bad" a run is in Amazing, it still stays at the top of sales.

[Tabs]

I understand we live in a very unstable world now, but if they can't give me a way to help me hold myself together, then I need to smash something!!!

I've been relying on the Disney plus shows. I don't always care for the character changes but it's something.

[TinkerSpider]

I don't see anything inaccurate about what you've stated. Marvel is doing exactly as it should to make a profit on its properties.

If fans don't care for it, as always, vote with your wallet. However, it seems no matter how "good" or "bad" a run is in Amazing, it still stays at the top of sales.

For fun, I just took a look at Comichron and sales over the last twenty years.

Sales - of comics in general, not just ASM - seem to have remained fairly consistent. But that’s the thing. They’re consistent.

They’re not growing.

Oh sure, there are bumps whenever a #1 or an anniversary or other “big event” issue comes out. But otherwise? Fairly flat.

That’s not awesome. It’s not dire, either, but it suggests either old readers are staying in for a long haul but when they start to die off, there will be a reckoning; or old readers are being replaced on a 1-to-1 basis by new readers but masses of new readers aren’t purchasing print comics.

Of course, we don’t know how digital sales are affecting overall numbers, and since Marvel and DC have moved away from Diamond, Comichron is guesstimating instead of relying on actual sales. Nor do I think Marvel has provided insight into how many people use Marvel Unlimited.

All this to say that focusing on print comic book sales as a success metric may not be the slam dunk argument some think it is.

[NC_Yankee]

Marvel has only one mandate: make a profit while creating intellectual property Disney can exploit.

To that end, they absolutely, positively, definitely know Mary Jane sells comics. They put her on variant covers. She shows up in stories when they need a boost in interest and sales. They dangle her to create buzz. I’ve done pretty thorough searches on Twitter (which, granted, is only a microcosm but still) and nearly all the references to ASM #2, from the time the issue was solicited to now, are about the cover and not so much the actual story.

Marvel knows what they are doing.

Are they “invested” in the relationship in that there is an emotional connection and they ship/don’t ship the characters? No. They could not care less.

Are they invested from the point of view that putting MJ on covers and dangling her in front of readers prints money? Yes.

They know what they are doing. And the editor’s letter in ASM 1 - assuring they have answers for MJ and Paul and the kids - confirms they realize how fans react when it comes to touching on MJ. And they are going to bait that hook and troll readers by showing them the MJ football and then snatching it away at the last minute ad infinitum.

If Marvel wasn’t fully invested in making money off MJ fans, they would write her out of the book and never mention her again.

I’m firmly in the camp that the cover was created before Wells actually broke his story down into issues, and the MJ story beat and maybe other story beats were shifted around. He obviously thought it was more important to establish Peter’s and Norman’s new status quo than Peter’s and MJ’s. And maybe Wells and editorial made a decision after ASM #1 was turned in that it was better to let the MJ thing remain a mystery and they didn’t have to go into the specifics of the breakup.

But I also firmly believe they knew they would receive blowback. They get blowback every time a cover baits and switches, which is not exactly uncommon.



Or maybe it’s as if superhero comics are nothing but serialized stories for a mostly male audience, just as soap operas are serialized stories aimed at a mostly female audience, but they both focus on characters navigating an idealized, fantastical world - which includes their relationships with others.

Very good comparison. The Mrs who is Mexican loves Mexican futbol (soccer) while I like the Steelers and Penn State and above all the Yankees. She also watches Telenovelas ( Mexican soap operas) and loves romance movies ( while I think they are lame) and hates violence in Spider-Man and action films that I enjoy. I definitely think there are gender and cultural issues behind it all, and Marvel holding back on the romance part of ASM with MJ is just a part of it.

[Matt Rat]

If Marvel cared as much about MJ as the fans did, the main couple wouldn't have broken up in the first place, staff would not have pushed other love interests, and this reference would not have been made

They got back together later under Spencer, so what is your point exactly? it means nothing. All their break ups are temporary.

They also kept producing marriage stories long after that.

It's as though this is a telenovela rather than a superhero comic.

Spider-Man is more than a superhero comic.

Why else do you think the best received animated Spider-Man shows have relationships at their core?

[Lunala]

so what is your point

Thereupon, attributable to unknown mystery box double-dealing, Peter and MJ's relationship was abruptly discontinued. My remark isn't a scathing character appraisal. It's an observation regarding a regretful disconnect between readership's concerns and the spider hierarchy.

[Mercwmouth12]

Thereupon, attributable to unknown mystery box double-dealing, Peter and MJ's relationship was abruptly discontinued. My remark isn't a scathing character appraisal. It's an observation regarding a regretful disconnect between readership's concerns and the spider hierarchy.

This is just drama for 2 characters that will be apart of some dumb mystery box they want to drag out and then have a big reunion that will make bank

[Kevinroc]

There are simple explanations that don't require anyone lying about delays, or any behind the scenes turmoil about big changed plans.

One factor is that Marvel doesn't care as much about the spider-marriage/ Peter & MJ's relationship as some of the fans do. So they'll think the cover is fine. At some point in this arc, there will be scenes with Mary Jane, so they think it doesn't matter as much if it happens this issue and/ or they may think the cover helps understand Peter's mindset.

Covers tend to be released before the interiors are finished, so it may not be a rewrite as much as the published comic being a bit different than they figured it would be a few months ago. It could be that a fight scene was a bit longer, or they thought this was the right time to focus on Norman Osborn.

The truth is likely that it's both these things. The people at Marvel aren't invested in Peter & MJ's relationship the way some readers are, and don't realize that some readers will be really pissed off at a cover that touches on an issue they care about.

Given the editorial page in the last issue basically asked readers to give the new run a chance, I don't think Marvel doesn't care. There may be individuals who don't care about the relationship, but by and large it seems like the readership does.