REVIEW: Wonder Woman Can't Save Dull "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice"

[kalorama]

I am capable of postulating what my opinion may be considering everything I have read from reports of the story, to reviews by professional critics, to comments from people who have already seen the film. By most accounts, people say if you didn't like MoS you won't like BvS. But again... my opinion. And you are arguing with my about my opinion for some unfathomable reason.

I'm not arguing with you about your opinion of the quality of BvS as a film because you don't actually have an opinion on the quality of BvS as a film. You can't have one (at least one that has any validity) because you haven't seen the movie, in much the same way as I can't have an opinion on how Miller Lite rates as a beer relative to Sierra Nevada or Sam Adams because, while I often drink Sierra Nevada or Sam Adams, I've never had a Miller Lite in my life. I've heard a wide range of opinions about it, but for me to say "I think it's a contender for the worst beer ever" is empty speculation because I have no actual experience to inform it, only secondhand opinions from other people that I can neither verify nor refute directly. And that is not the same thing as actually having an opinion of one's own.

Or, in other words, this:

It's simple: You haven't seen the movie. Your opinion regarding the quality of the movie is less valid because it's less informed.

Eta: I totally respect your opinion as an impression along the lines of "this doesn't look like a movie I want to pay to see." But when it comes to actually grading/ranking the movie? It really helps to see the movie first.

It doesn't just help. It's pretty much a prerequisite.

[Osiris-Rex]

And no one remembered that they "loved" Superman Returns.

I happened to catch Superman Returns the other day on Cinemax. When I first saw it years back I wasn't too impressed. But now compared to Man of Steel, it struck me that although it had its flaws, it was much more true to Superman and a much more enjoyable movie. What would have made it an even better movie is if Brandon Routh had been allowed to play the goofy big kid he gets to play as Atom on Legends or Tomorrow. WB took the wrong message from Superman Returns. Instead of making Superman more the more cheerful big blue boy scout that made Superman: The Movie work, they went the opposite way in MoS and made Superman even more sad and depressed.

[brettc1]

I think Returns and MoS both failed for me in slightly different ways.

Saw Civil a War again last night. On the trip home my son who is 11 talked about why he like it better than BvS.

More action to break up all the talking. Almost all the action in BvS is in the last half hour.

The fight between Superman and Batman was too short and not very exciting.

Not enough laughs.

[Guapo Méndez]

I happened to catch Superman Returns the other day on Cinemax. When I first saw it years back I wasn't too impressed. But now compared to Man of Steel, it struck me that although it had its flaws, it was much more true to Superman and a much more enjoyable movie. What would have made it an even better movie is if Brandon Routh had been allowed to play the goofy big kid he gets to play as Atom on Legends or Tomorrow. WB took the wrong message from Superman Returns. Instead of making Superman more the more cheerful big blue boy scout that made Superman: The Movie work, they went the opposite way in MoS and made Superman even more sad and depressed.

Superman Returns had Superman break up a perfectly good relationship, showed him as a deadbeat dad, and worse, cheated the ultimate orphan of the joy of finding out he's not the last kryptonian. So much potential wasted...! Not too mention the can of worms that was the kid pianoing the bad guy.


This is a very good take on BvS: it's not just a standalone film, , but the introduction to the DC cinematic universe and it was supposed to be an Avengers type financial payday. While 850+ is not chump-change (we agree on that), it's not a billion dollars with fans and critics singing the movie's praises. It was a very divisive movie and a small percentage of people actually liked it enough after the first 5 days.

Our gripe is that it could have been better, -like Marvel's movies are- and it could have been better if they had been truer to the character, much like Deadpool's movie was to Deadpool. A contrast between Batman and Superman's methods to deliver justice...but as it was, it was difficult to find the differences between them.

[Phil Clark]

Fine guys... since everyone thinks I can't have an opinion until I see it, I will happily post my full opinion once it hits video and I see it. As I said before, I may be surprised... but I really don't think so. I was right about Fant4stic, and watching it confirmed it. I suspect this will turn out to be the same.

[brettc1]

It will be interesting seeing how CW does because with its $250M budget announced it is now easy to measure the two against each other. They are the sMe length overall and the same genre, w ith very similar plot points (to a quick glance).

WB will be looking to see how Cap does you can be sure. They know how much they made and will want to see if they got all they could or was there money left at the table? And if so, how much and why didn't they get it? That can then help them moving forward.

Who knowsm maybe this movie really did do as well as it could and CW will do no better.

[Phil Clark]

It will be interesting seeing how CW does because with its $250M budget announced it is now easy to measure the two against each other. They are the sMe length overall and the same genre, w ith very similar plot points (to a quick glance).

WB will be looking to see how Cap does you can be sure. They know how much they made and will want to see if they got all they could or was there money left at the table? And if so, how much and why didn't they get it? That can then help them moving forward.

Who knowsm maybe this movie really did do as well as it could and CW will do no better.

If your theory is true, and Warners looks for a reason why BvS didn't perform, they only have to look at two things, the script and the director. The design of the film is solid, with the characters looking good, and the performances are said to be solid for the most part (although I have my concerns about a couple of them). So that only leaves the core story which is in the screenplay and the director who guided the story.

[Mark Thrust]

If your theory is true, and Warners looks for a reason why BvS didn't perform, they only have to look at two things, the script and the director. The design of the film is solid, with the characters looking good, and the performances are said to be solid for the most part (although I have my concerns about a couple of them). So that only leaves the core story which is in the screenplay and the director who guided the story.

BvS had a few standout performances..Affleck, Irons and Eisenberg made the film enjoyable. All of them brightened the movie up when they were on screen. The rest were boring cardboard cutouts. The whole subplot with Lois and the magic bullets she was using her journalistic powers to discover was boring, and Cavill looked bored and just tired...a far cry from the eager and earnest Superman from Man of Steel.
It has a few moments of watchable moments; the rest is an exercise in style over substance, a regression for Snyder from Man of Steel, to be honest. Story cohesion is pretty important in visual media, its storytelling 101. This movie fails to even grasp the basic concept of such standards. I know people keep saying, 'Wait for the director cut, maaaaaan, Snyder is a genius, a Kubrick, maaaaan" Nothing I have seen from the director shows the level of competence of a Kubrick, or, Hell, even a Bay. Michael Bay may be the 'splosion dude' but at least he knows how to tell a coherent story.

[brettc1]

Pretty much the best review of BVS. Hilarious!

[simbob4000]

Pretty much the best review of BVS. Hilarious!

You need the "www" there.

[simbob4000]

Fine guys... since everyone thinks I can't have an opinion until I see it, I will happily post my full opinion once it hits video and I see it. As I said before, I may be surprised... but I really don't think so. I was right about Fant4stic, and watching it confirmed it. I suspect this will turn out to be the same.

Did you say Fant4stic wasn't half as bad as people were making it out to be? Because that's the only way you'd be right about that movie.

[Rogue Star]

I caught the first 30 or 40 minutes of Fant4stic on an airplane, I did notice some of the flaws that I heard about but the little that I did see wasn't bad at all.

[kalorama]

I just saw FF on cable and, while it was certainly flawed in any number of ways, there were some interesting elements to it, enough to leave me wondering what the original Josh Trank cut would have looked like. Because I found the direction things started off in, before things veered off (with all the third actre-shot scenes and the forced attempt at a more "convention" hero/villain fight ending) kind of intriguing.

[Doctor Know]

I happened to catch Superman Returns the other day on Cinemax. When I first saw it years back I wasn't too impressed. But now compared to Man of Steel, it struck me that although it had its flaws, it was much more true to Superman and a much more enjoyable movie. What would have made it an even better movie is if Brandon Routh had been allowed to play the goofy big kid he gets to play as Atom on Legends or Tomorrow. WB took the wrong message from Superman Returns. Instead of making Superman more the more cheerful big blue boy scout that made Superman: The Movie work, they went the opposite way in MoS and made Superman even more sad and depressed.

Superman Returns wasn't even about Superman. It was a Lois Lane movie, with Superman showing up to do action bits. The action bits lasting a full 14 minutes of the film's 2 hour and 35 minute length. The remaining 2 hours and 19 minutes left are filled Donner nostalgia, following Lois Lane around and her family drama, Luthor's stupid scheme and Routh doing his best Reeve impersonation. While MOS is definitely a Superman centered story. He is the character we follow from beginning to end, and he is the one we are invested it.

Neither MOS or SR are upbeat like SM TM, but MOS ends with Superman after discovering who he is, and on a triumphant and bittersweet note due to the Kryptonian Invasion.

[Osiris-Rex]

Superman Returns wasn't even about Superman. It was a Lois Lane movie, with Superman showing up to do action bits. The action bits lasting a full 14 minutes of the film's 2 hour and 35 minute length. The remaining 2 hours and 19 minutes left are filled Donner nostalgia, following Lois Lane around and her family drama, Luthor's stupid scheme and Routh doing his best Reeve impersonation. While MOS is definitely a Superman centered story. He is the character we follow from beginning to end, and he is the one we are invested it.

Neither MOS or SR are upbeat like SM TM, but MOS ends with Superman after discovering who he is, and on a triumphant and bittersweet note due to the Kryptonian Invasion.

Just saying Superman Returns felt more like watching a Superman movie. Man of Steel just seemed like a generic, big budget CGI action movie that any character could have been inserted in as the hero. He was almost the SW3 Anakin Skywalker in a red cape.