On the Outside: The Outsiders Appreciation/Discussion thread '19

[lemonpeace]

repost from the Duke Thomas thread, felt it was relevant here as well:

the more I sit with this latest issue of Outsiders the more conflicted I feel about it. on one hand, it's a great outing for Cass and it progressed the story quite a bit, but on the other hand, it's frustrating that Duke is being victimized YET AGAIN and I'm still not sure if I want this new darkness/shadow ability for Duke given I like him as a light-themed hero

I have faith in Hill's pen game and I get he wants to develop Duke through a "crucible" but honestly it's starting to feel like he lacks the investment in the character compared to the others. it feels evident by the fact that Duke never really looks good or cool; character-wise, dexter soy makes Duke's armor look fantastic. he continues to be the only character with no showings and never getting any kind of win thus far. I get breaking a character down to build them back up but it's reaching the point where I fear the come up won't justify or outweigh the beat down.

[Modamy]

I definitely feel where your coming from. If your invested in a character you don't really want a long drawn out arc of them looking like a loser regardless of the payoff. I really like this book and I'm interested in seeing where Duke's character goes, but watching him just job while everyone looks cool is tiring. I still (like a lot of characters I'm interested in) need to read more stuff featuring Duke, but his powerset seems perfect for a mystery protagonist so I'm especially interested in seeing someone write that kind of story with him.

[Frontier]

repost from the Duke Thomas thread, felt it was relevant here as well:







I have faith in Hill's pen game and I get he wants to develop Duke through a "crucible" but honestly it's starting to feel like he lacks the investment in the character compared to the others. it feels evident by the fact that Duke never really looks good or cool; character-wise, dexter soy makes Duke's armor look fantastic. he continues to be the only character with no showings and never getting any kind of win thus far. I get breaking a character down to build them back up but it's reaching the point where I fear the come up won't justify or outweigh the beat down.

Is that The Monitor?

[lemonpeace]

Is that The Monitor?

That's Ishmael, he's Ras al Ghul's latest enforcer/apostle. I didn't notice how similar he looks to the Monitor, it's probably just this angle and this artist's style coming together weird.

[leo619]

repost from the Duke Thomas thread, felt it was relevant here as well:







I have faith in Hill's pen game and I get he wants to develop Duke through a "crucible" but honestly it's starting to feel like he lacks the investment in the character compared to the others. it feels evident by the fact that Duke never really looks good or cool; character-wise, dexter soy makes Duke's armor look fantastic. he continues to be the only character with no showings and never getting any kind of win thus far. I get breaking a character down to build them back up but it's reaching the point where I fear the come up won't justify or outweigh the beat down.

LOL, I stated this a long time ago back when I saw the explosion that caused Duke to be injured. He had his breaking down moment literally since Hill's been writing him. Once I saw that reasoning, it gave me bad vibes. It's akin to WWE 2k20 my career mode. When you spend almost every cutscene jobbing and getting beat down, the come up doesn't seem worth it. This comic has essentially confirm my initial reservation.

[lemonpeace]

LOL, I stated this a long time ago back when I saw the explosion that caused Duke to be injured. He had his breaking down moment literally since Hill's been writing him. Once I saw that reasoning, it gave me bad vibes. It's akin to WWE 2k20 my career mode. When you spend almost every cutscene jobbing and getting beat down, the come up doesn't seem worth it. This comic has essentially confirm my initial reservation.

I understood the reasoning early on, it's standard hero's journey storytelling, but I think the issue is Hill is not invested in Duke; he just doesn't see him as "cool" like the others (or as cool ass them at least). It feels like he doesn't see the utility in Duke so he doesn't know how to balance the deconstruction of the character with keeping him compelling to read. I am enjoying everything else in the book, so i have faith in Hill's pen but it's taking way too long for him including Duke on this roster to pay off. Issue three was very Duke-centric and it was a well-done character examination and pointed to him finally moving in a more progressive direction, I feel we should have gotten something from Duke that props him up before plunging him back into victimization again; or have Ishmael change Duke before the team got together and to help rehabilitate his PTSD and save the "Batman secretly has Karma" stuff for later. I'm not condemning the whole book because i'm enjoying almost everything else, maybe this is Duke's rock-bottom and it's all solar-flare-punches-shadow-magic-singlehandedly-saving-the-world type **** for him from here on out, I'm just tired of the fall off and was hoping for more for Duke from Hill by this point.

[leo619]

I understood the reasoning early on, it's standard hero's journey storytelling, but I think the issue is Hill is not invested in Duke; he just doesn't see him as "cool" like the others (or as cool ass them at least). It feels like he doesn't see the utility in Duke so he doesn't know how to balance the deconstruction of the character with keeping him compelling to read. I am enjoying everything else in the book, so i have faith in Hill's pen but it's taking way too long for him including Duke on this roster to pay off. Issue three was very Duke-centric and it was a well-done character examination and pointed to him finally moving in a more progressive direction, I feel we should have gotten something from Duke that props him up before plunging him back into victimization again; or have Ishmael change Duke before the team got together and to help rehabilitate his PTSD and save the "Batman secretly has Karma" stuff for later. I'm not condemning the whole book because i'm enjoying almost everything else, maybe this is Duke's rock-bottom and it's all solar-flare-punches-shadow-magic-singlehandedly-saving-the-world type **** for him from here on out, I'm just tired of the fall off and was hoping for more for Duke from Hill by this point.

Eh, I'm going to have to agree to disagree there. While similar to you, I've been enjoying other elements of the book (which is why it's still in my pool list." I do not believe any issue really helped propel Duke in the right direction and I definitely don't believe you have to put a character drastically through the ringer just to appear to make him stronger. Especially when it's so overdone that it turns into diminishing returns. It was the same reasoning that's given to Cyborg, and it's regularly seen in his appreciation thread how fans complain about his mistreatment.

More power to you to hold on for Hill, but even if Duke somehow rises like a phoenix eventually, it will be too little, too late for me.

[warzon]

anyone else ''seeing'' Duke being made into Marvel version of Daredevil for DC.

[lemonpeace]

anyone else ''seeing'' Duke being made into Marvel version of Daredevil for DC.

that would be an interesting direction the character, he'd just need to get enough traction to get more solo action; then he'll need his own Frank Miller or Bendis to pen a solid seminal run for him.

[Raijin]

that would be an interesting direction the character, he'd just need to get enough traction to get more solo action; then he'll need his own Frank Miller or Bendis to pen a solid seminal run for him.

And lose the bat logo.

[J. D. Guy]

I'mma try and remain optimistic, and continue my "wait and see" stance that I have taken since day one in regards to who Hill will work with Duke on The Outsiders.

Visually and aesthetically, these new power could well be cool, depending on how they are explored, developed, and used. One thing, of course, this shouldn't be at the expense of his Light powers. Those need way more exposure and exploration and growth to discard them entirely beyond the confines of this story.

So again, I'll see... One thing I will say is he's certainly nowhere near the dire straights Cyborg has been written into. And I hope such never comes to pass. (Cyborg's kind of unique in that he had both Walker and Semper doing right by him, but there takes were not followed through. Which is kind of the main issue with Cyborg's comic's incarnation.)

[leo619]

I'mma try and remain optimistic, and continue my "wait and see" stance that I have taken since day one in regards to who Hill will work with Duke on The Outsiders.

Visually and aesthetically, these new power could well be cool, depending on how they are explored, developed, and used. One thing, of course, this shouldn't be at the expense of his Light powers. Those need way more exposure and exploration and growth to discard them entirely beyond the confines of this story.

So again, I'll see... One thing I will say is he's certainly nowhere near the dire straights Cyborg has been written into. And I hope such never comes to pass. (Cyborg's kind of unique in that he had both Walker and Semper doing right by him, but there takes were followed through. Which is kind of the main issue with Cyborg's comic's incarnation.)

Cyborg is in the dire stage that he is in because his problems were never fixed, jobbing and treated like a second rate hero just like Duke is being treated as now. So while I agree that Duke isn't in the same severity as Cyborg, he's certainly being sent down a similar path. That's for sure.

[J. D. Guy]

Cyborg is in the dire stage that he is in because his problems were never fixed, jobbing and treated like a second rate hero just like Duke is being treated as now. So while I agree that Duke isn't in the same severity as Cyborg, he's certainly being sent down a similar path. That's for sure.

Don't get me wrong; the worry is there for me. It's been there since that unfortunate opening that happened at the start of Hill's Detective Comics story arc. I wasn't happy that Duke was relegated to the role of the inexperienced one whom was punked by the new villain. Duke's new, but he's not that new.

That said, I do wish to remain optimistic for now, as I have been generally enjoying Duke's moments in The Outsiders, in contrast to the arc in Detective Comics.

[lemonpeace]

Batman and the Outsiders #8 preview

https://blacknerdproblems.com/exclus...e-outsiders-8/

[Iconic]

Batman and the Outsiders #8 preview

https://blacknerdproblems.com/exclus...e-outsiders-8/

Yoooooo! THAT. WAS. INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!