Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Frontier]

While I agree, it happens too often to discount and the New 52 was too long and recent a departure from the things you bolded to forget either.

I feel like I need to check out that New 52 run. I'm not for overly-aggressive Kara, but I've heard good things about it.

[Robanker]

I feel like I need to check out that New 52 run. I'm not for overly-aggressive Kara, but I've heard good things about it.

Wasn't for me.

Not my only problem with Supergirl, but I've never liked when DC pushed the idea where she's more powerful than Clark despite him: a) being full Kryptonian just as she is, older and in his prime, larger and with significantly more muscle mass, absorbed far more solar radiation than she has by virtue of being exposed to our sun for over twenty years.

Outside of some retcon where Kryptonian females process sunlight in a significantly more efficient capacity, I don't see how Kara would be stronger and even then it would take a while to surpass Kal's head start. DC likes to push it from time to time and I've never once bought it because he's always going to be the Kryptonian that it comes down to in any significant event. It feels like lip service, so if she's to be stronger, actually commit or provide a real reason why outside "we need her to not just feel like Superman-lite."

And she shouldn't be and usually isn't, but powers are not where she will shine. It has to be her character. Same with Jon, for what it's worth.

[phantom1592]

Wasn't for me.

Not my only problem with Supergirl, but I've never liked when DC pushed the idea where she's more powerful than Clark despite him: a) being full Kryptonian just as she is, older and in his prime, larger and with significantly more muscle mass, absorbed far more solar radiation than she has by virtue of being exposed to our sun for over twenty years.

Outside of some retcon where Kryptonian females process sunlight in a significantly more efficient capacity, I don't see how Kara would be stronger and even then it would take a while to surpass Kal's head start. DC likes to push it from time to time and I've never once bought it because he's always going to be the Kryptonian that it comes down to in any significant event. It feels like lip service, so if she's to be stronger, actually commit or provide a real reason why outside "we need her to not just feel like Superman-lite."

And she shouldn't be and usually isn't, but powers are not where she will shine. It has to be her character. Same with Jon, for what it's worth.

This is why I hate the 'solar battery' idea. With a Passion. Too much focus on trying to explain 'why' his powers are what they are... and all to the detriment of other stories.

For me, the only real solution... Yellow sun = Powers on. Red Sun = Power off. No building them up over time. Superboy is totally a thing... Super BABY is totally a thing... But you don't have to jump through hoops when you want a full powered Zod or Supergirl who show up decades later. All Kryptonians are full power under Yellow Sun...

[Tzigone]

And she shouldn't be and usually isn't, but powers are not where she will shine. It has to be her character. Same with Jon, for what it's worth.

I think her powers are impressive enough. 99.9999% of the time, there should be no noticeable difference between her and Clark. The difference to me should be, as you said, the relative difference between a male and female human of those sizes/ages. I don't think the duration of solar radiation matters (I'm pretty amenable to instant on/off switch in that regard), and there should be no difference in heat vision, hearing, etc. I know there is a significant strength difference in humans those sizes, but they are both so very strong and fast already that, unless doing a side-by-side, readers should almost never notice a difference. I am not a fan of heroes fighting/competing so fans can see who is "best" - especially since these often end up more about which character is more popular than anything else.

I'm actually very fond of the idea - that they did not go with - of Jon being weaker than a full Kryptonian. And of it as something that doesn't usually bother him. Though there may be a time or two when older when he'd think his father could have done it. But that's a fool's game - you have the powers you have (or don't have, for humans) and I'm not keen on angst over lesser powers coming too very often for any characters. I did like (before my dreams were quashed, although I knew it'd never realistically happen) the idea of younger-brother Chris being introduced and Jon having the occasional resentment over a 6 year old being stronger than him. It's just different when it's a dad v. a little brother - someone you think should be stronger than you (at least until adulthood) v. someone who should not.

For me, the only real solution... Yellow sun = Powers on. Red Sun = Power off. No building them up over time. Superboy is totally a thing... Super BABY is totally a thing... But you don't have to jump through hoops when you want a full powered Zod or Supergirl who show up decades later. All Kryptonians are full power under Yellow Sun...

I agree with powers working that way, and Clark having powers from infancy. But no costume-wearing until Superman debuts as an adult. Very into the meta of Superman being the first superhero.

[Robanker]

I agree it should be negligible, because they can both juggle planets. Does it really matter at that point? But writers like to introduce the idea without fleshing it out and that bugs me.

I get PG being stronger. She's closer to Clark's age and an E2 Kryptonian which are usually stronger.

I don't like the yellow sun = powers idea because then Kal can't be as cosmic as I enjoy him. I like deep space Super stories and they won't always have a yellow sun, so as long as there's not a red sun, I like the idea that Clark is running on a clock and needs to recharge. It's a fine idea but doesn't get used as much.

[docmidnite]

I think her powers are impressive enough. 99.9999% of the time, there should be no noticeable difference between her and Clark. The difference to me should be, as you said, the relative difference between a male and female human of those sizes/ages. I don't think the duration of solar radiation matters (I'm pretty amenable to instant on/off switch in that regard), and there should be no difference in heat vision, hearing, etc. I know there is a significant strength difference in humans those sizes, but they are both so very strong and fast already that, unless doing a side-by-side, readers should almost never notice a difference. I am not a fan of heroes fighting/competing so fans can see who is "best" - especially since these often end up more about which character is more popular than anything else.

I'm actually very fond of the idea - that they did not go with - of Jon being weaker than a full Kryptonian. And of it as something that doesn't usually bother him. Though there may be a time or two when older when he'd think his father could have done it. But that's a fool's game - you have the powers you have (or don't have, for humans) and I'm not keen on angst over lesser powers coming too very often for any characters. I did like (before my dreams were quashed, although I knew it'd never realistically happen) the idea of younger-brother Chris being introduced and Jon having the occasional resentment over a 6 year old being stronger than him. It's just different when it's a dad v. a little brother - someone you think should be stronger than you (at least until adulthood) v. someone who should not.

I agree with powers working that way, and Clark having powers from infancy. But no costume-wearing until Superman debuts as an adult. Very into the meta of Superman being the first superhero.

I agree. The ONLY time he should be in costume as a teen is in the future with the Legion having FUN with other teenagers like himself. Keeps his teenage years balanced since his parents don’t allow him to use his powers or have too much fun either.

[Tzigone]

I agree. The ONLY time he should be in costume as a teen is in the future with the Legion having FUN with other teenagers like himself. Keeps his teenage years balanced since his parents don’t allow him to use his powers or have too much fun either.

See, I don't like him with the Legion, either. Superman isn't the first Superhero then, Superboy is (even if he doesn't remember it). Also, I really don't care for the Krypton-heavy (or super-duper isolated-feeling), lots of messages from Jor-El, perceives-himself-as-alien, thinks-of-himself-as-Kal-El, silver age. I prefer both golden and modern era (in both of which he doesn't usually think of himself as "other") to it. And, it heavily skews the experience angle to me - that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman should be peers. If he has a decade of experience on them (even if he doesn't remember it), then they don't feel like three that got started at similar time, on equal footing. There's a senior, and two juniors. Which is happening again with Wonder Woman in 5G (and I don't like it) and is sort of like post-COIE, when she was rookie and they'd been around longer (at least Bruce had). I didn't like that, either. It's not a deal-breaker for me, or anything. Just not what I'd prefer.

The fact that I didn't like most of the Superboy I did read (to be fair, I can't read a lot of silver age Superman, either), and thus did not ever read any old Legion stories undoubtedly contributes to me being quite willing to chuck it.

[Tzigone]

Another opinion I just thought to share: I think characters/titles created in the silver age are generally better than Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in the silver age. Admittedly, I also think Superman and Wonder Woman suffer especially from Lois, Lana, and Steve's relationship-scheming. I also think Jimmy was much better in the radio show than in the comic, but that's more down to silver-age-crack, probably, than anything else.

But I really enjoyed Barry. The Flash is the only silver-age title I've read all issues to. Really liked it (and found it much more entertaining and memorable than the bronze age Flash). Also read all silver age stories with Elongated Man. The Green Lantern ones I read mostly worked well (except his unfortunate sister-in-law (to be) who though Hal's brother was GL - that gag went on way too long).

I also don't really think personalities for the newer heroes were as interchangeable in the 60s as some think of them, as. While certainly many reacted similarly in heroism, their actual off-duty personalities to me (Barry, Ralph, Hal, Ray, Katar, and Shayera) are not all the same. Actually, despite being in the same book, I'd say Katar and Shayera were most alike. Which did make some sense. I also probably have the least sense of them off-duty.

Edit: For clarification, I have only read bronze age Flash up to shortly before Iris' death, not the later stuff.

[docmidnite]

See, I don't like him with the Legion, either. Superman isn't the first Superhero then, Superboy is (even if he doesn't remember it). Also, I really don't care for the Krypton-heavy (or super-duper isolated-feeling), lots of messages from Jor-El, perceives-himself-as-alien, thinks-of-himself-as-Kal-El, silver age. I prefer both golden and modern era (in both of which he doesn't usually think of himself as "other") to it. And, it heavily skews the experience angle to me - that Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman should be peers. If he has a decade of experience on them (even if he doesn't remember it), then they don't feel like three that got started at similar time, on equal footing. There's a senior, and two juniors. Which is happening again with Wonder Woman in 5G (and I don't like it) and is sort of like post-COIE, when she was rookie and they'd been around longer (at least Bruce had). I didn't like that, either. It's not a deal-breaker for me, or anything. Just not what I'd prefer.

The fact that I didn't like most of the Superboy I did read (to be fair, I can't read a lot of silver age Superman, either), and thus did not ever read any old Legion stories undoubtedly contributes to me being quite willing to chuck it.

If he only is in costume as Superboy while in the 31st century then that doesn’t prevent him being the first superhero of the 21st century because he’ll be making his first in costume appearance as Superman when he hits adulthood in the 21st century before any other superheroes debut in the 21st century.

[Tzigone]

If he only is in costume as Superboy while in the 31st century then that doesn’t prevent him being the first superhero of the 21st century because he’ll be making his first in costume appearance as Superman when he hits adulthood in the 21st century before any other superheroes debut in the 21st century.

I disagree. He is Superboy before he is Superman, and is so while living in the 20th/21st century (I mean, not having gone to future to live permanently before becoming a hero). Superman is not first. Plus, his entire coming into being as a hero - that journey - is first done by Superboy, not Superman. And it's not done independently, which is important to me. He's motivated by others (the Legion). Even if he doesn't remember it, costumed superheroing is still not an idea that originated with him (I presume they'd come to him before costuming in that version, anyway). That doesn't work for me. I'd always feel it was them that made it happen, not him, like maybe it it was somewhere in his subconscious that he knew he'd the famous, beloved hero.* And it just doesn't have the weight to me of putting on that costume for the first time in Metropolis and grown man, just as he originally did. Like I said, I'm into the meta, and Superboy just is not compatible with that to me.

I'm not as familiar with the Legion, as I've said, but wouldn't their story have to rewritten (to be fair, it already has been) since they were motivated by Superboy (not man?). Sorry if wrong about that, it's just my understanding from comments by others.

*Worse with that is the idea that it could be a timeloop and if they'd never gone back, then he'd never have been Superman at all because of the lack of that subconscious knowledge.

[SiegePerilous02]

I disagree. He is Superboy before he is Superman, and is so while living in the 20th/21st century (I mean, not having gone to future to live permanently before becoming a hero). Superman is not first. Plus, his entire coming into being as a hero - that journey - is first done by Superboy, not Superman. And it's not done independently, which is important to me. He's motivated by others (the Legion). Even if he doesn't remember it, costumed superheroing is still not an idea that originated with him (I presume they'd come to him before costuming in that version, anyway). That doesn't work for me. I'd always feel it was them that made it happen, not him, like maybe it it was somewhere in his subconscious that he knew he'd the famous, beloved hero.* And it just doesn't have the weight to me of putting on that costume for the first time in Metropolis and grown man, just as he originally did. Like I said, I'm into the meta, and Superboy just is not compatible with that to me.

I'm not as familiar with the Legion, as I've said, but wouldn't their story have to rewritten (to be fair, it already has been) since they were motivated by Superboy (not man?). Sorry if wrong about that, it's just my understanding from comments by others.

*Worse with that is the idea that it could be a timeloop and if they'd never gone back, then he'd never have been Superman at all because of the lack of that subconscious knowledge.

Costuming is still an idea that originated with him, or at least it didn't come from the Legion. He was already Superboy when he first met them. And they were not motivated by him as Superboy, it was his legend as Superman that prompted them to go back and meet him when he was around the same age as them.

I prefer him having some adventures with them as Superboy, he is their main link to the present day DCU. They are of sent adrift as a property without it, and we've seen their cotninuity start to be a mess as soon as the simple connection was severed. I don't like Clark being aware that he has a great destiny as Superman, but I think the Legion would be cautious in showing him certain aspects of the future. It would make him determined to help bring about that ideal future, but he doesn't know the specific and big role he played in it. Plus he inspired them, and they in a way help train him, so they played a part in shaping the greatest superhero who is their main inspiration. It boosts their importance in the DCU.

[docmidnite]

Another opinion I just thought to share: I think characters/titles created in the silver age are generally better than Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in the silver age. Admittedly, I also think Superman and Wonder Woman suffer especially from Lois, Lana, and Steve's relationship-scheming. I also think Jimmy was much better in the radio show than in the comic, but that's more down to silver-age-crack, probably, than anything else.

But I really enjoyed Barry. The Flash is the only silver-age title I've read all issues to. Really liked it (and found it much more entertaining and memorable than the bronze age Flash). Also read all silver age stories with Elongated Man. The Green Lantern ones I read mostly worked well (except his unfortunate sister-in-law (to be) who though Hal's brother was GL - that gag went on way too long).

I also don't really think personalities for the newer heroes were as interchangeable in the 60s as some think of them, as. While certainly many reacted similarly in heroism, their actual off-duty personalities to me (Barry, Ralph, Hal, Ray, Katar, and Shayera) are not all the same. Actually, despite being in the same book, I'd say Katar and Shayera were most alike. Which did make some sense. I also probably have the least sense of them off-duty.

Edit: For clarification, I have only read bronze age Flash up to shortly before Iris' death, not the later stuff.

I totally agree with that. While I didn’t grow up during the Silver and most of the Bronze Age (I’m almost 42) I grew up reading a lot of my father and uncle’s old comics until I was old enough to buy comics on my own and never thought their personalities were the same at all. I also enjoyed the family dynamic of the characters during the Satellite Era.

[Tzigone]

I totally agree with that. While I didn’t grow up during the Silver and most of the Bronze Age (I’m almost 42) I grew up reading a lot of my father and uncle’s old comics until I was old enough to buy comics on my own and never thought their personalities were the same at all. I also enjoyed the family dynamic of the characters during the Satellite Era.

I didn't grow up in that era, either. Started reading DC comics in 2015. Just started with back issues (actually started in the 1990s and spread from there). I'd always heard they were all the same in the old days, but they didn't seem to be to me when I actually read the comics. I love the Satellite era, but I think it's a pretty uncontroversial opinion that that era was good.

[docmidnite]

Costuming is still an idea that originated with him, or at least it didn't come from the Legion. He was already Superboy when he first met them. And they were not motivated by him as Superboy, it was his legend as Superman that prompted them to go back and meet him when he was around the same age as them.

I prefer him having some adventures with them as Superboy, he is their main link to the present day DCU. They are of sent adrift as a property without it, and we've seen their cotninuity start to be a mess as soon as the simple connection was severed. I don't like Clark being aware that he has a great destiny as Superman, but I think the Legion would be cautious in showing him certain aspects of the future. It would make him determined to help bring about that ideal future, but he doesn't know the specific and big role he played in it. Plus he inspired them, and they in a way help train him, so they played a part in shaping the greatest superhero who is their main inspiration. It boosts their importance in the DCU.

Agreed. And, again he’s never wearing the costume in the 21st century until he becomes an adult and debuts before any other superheroes do (making him the first superhero to debut in the 21st century)

[phantom1592]

I have zero attachment to Superman being the 'first superhero'. He can be the best and most powerful and most inspiring... but I've seen way too many stories with the JSA or flashbacks to ancient Egypt and stuff and the heroes that Hawkman has been.... Max Mercury's from the past...

Clinging to the 'meta' concept of Superman being first, tosses too many other concepts that I love.