Mary Elizabeth "Betty/Bette" Kane Appreciation 2020 (Bat-Girl/Flamebird/Hawkfire

[OBrianTallent]

What if it caused Bette to return to the comics, but with some of Mary's backstory, and race-swapped to match tv? Because I could sort of see that happening to clean-up Bette's confusing backstory, the step-sister route is an easy explanation. It'd require one of those timeline/universe reboot events though. Also, at what point does a rebooted character just become an entirely new character with the same name? That really depends on how it's done, I suppose.

The good news is so far no one has taken Bette's mantle, either as Flamebird or Hawkfire, and that's actually very reassuring IMO. If another character was already running around as Flamebird, that'd be a cause for concern for her fanbase.

Then its not Bette, but a completely different character with the name.

[Oberon]

At least with today’s Death Metal issue, Bette’s considered a part of Titans West history again. Even in her original Bat-Girl suit.

I've yet to see this, but it seems odd, since mostly fans know her as Flamebird. But Morrison started this with his take on Batman's earlier days. I guess Killing Joke started it too, further back with the scene of a photo of the original Batfamily - which seemed so out of place considering the stuff going on with Babs and Jim Gordon. I never got that panel.

[red winter]

Personally, I would like the heroine formerly known as Flamebird be given the Grayson treatment make her into a goverment operative either in S.H.A.D.E or I/O since every other intelligence organization/secret society was destroyed by Leviathan

[Oberon]

Personally, I would like the heroine formerly known as Flamebird be given the Grayson treatment make her into a goverment operative either in S.H.A.D.E or I/O since every other intelligence organization/secret society was destroyed by Leviathan

It makes sense. Bette would still end up being a guest star more than anything, but it's better than what she has now.

[Tzigone]

Personally, I would like the heroine formerly known as Flamebird be given the Grayson treatment make her into a goverment operative either in S.H.A.D.E or I/O since every other intelligence organization/secret society was destroyed by Leviathan

I'm not really a fan - for three reasons. First, it's just copying someone else's story. Second, I like traditional superheroes (that's really the most important, I admit). Third, it'd likely be shortlived, because all government agencies must go evil - at least that's how it seems, quite often.

[Tsukiakari1203]

At least with today’s Death Metal issue, Bette’s considered a part of Titans West history again. Even in her original Bat-Girl suit.

which thrills me so much!

[Oberon]

So I am REALLY NOT paying attention to the Death Metal stuff. Is this causing the next reboot?

Are any of these clues to what will happen in the next reboot? (ie; they do a real canonization of Silver Age up, bringing original stories and characters back, more or less.

Of course that means Bette as Bat-girl will just have a noble death and they'll be finally done with her, sniff.

[Tsukiakari1203]

So I am REALLY NOT paying attention to the Death Metal stuff. Is this causing the next reboot?

Are any of these clues to what will happen in the next reboot? (ie; they do a real canonization of Silver Age up, bringing original stories and characters back, more or less.

Of course that means Bette as Bat-girl will just have a noble death and they'll be finally done with her, sniff.

everything is canon apparently

[Oberon]

everything is canon apparently

Seriously! Like whenever has any dead character not returned, other than Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy (hmmmmm)

[Digifiend]

So I am REALLY NOT paying attention to the Death Metal stuff. Is this causing the next reboot?

Are any of these clues to what will happen in the next reboot? (ie; they do a real canonization of Silver Age up, bringing original stories and characters back, more or less.

Of course that means Bette as Bat-girl will just have a noble death and they'll be finally done with her, sniff.

Anybody who died only to get rebooted in New 52 would be retconned as having been resurrected.

[Tsukiakari1203]

Anybody who died only to get rebooted in New 52 would be retconned as having been resurrected.

WOOHOO@ ALFRED's back then

[Tsukiakari1203]

the whole Mary thing has given me a lot of conflicting feelings. Because I do like Mary, quite a bit. But I remember when the casting calls came out and the role that was revealed to be Mary Hamilton read like Bette, I was thrilled that she was finally getting adapted and then they casted Nicole and i was like, okay, an Asian Bette would be cool. I figured they were going to have her be biracial.

Then she was announced to be Kate's stepsister and I was really disappointed and unhappy. Because it jettisons all chance of Mary being independent. Bette because she pre-existed before Kate didn't have the problem of being reliant on another character. She was a Titan who used to be Batfam. That was her, she only got tied to Kate post-Elegy but even then she still did Titan cameos. Then they announced the character's name was going to be Mary and my hopes just all shattered. yes Mary Elizabeth is Bette's first name in the comics but not many people know that. By not calling her Bette/Betty you have destroyed her chance at escaping obscurity. I'm going to be bitter about that for a long time. Last thing is that Mary doesn't have a lot of Bette's personality/motivations.

Bette is hot-headed, impulsive, bitchy, dramatic, caring, and an adrenaline junkie. Mary only gets the caring bit. They do share the trait of being doctors but while Bette being a doctor got derailed by people just forgetting about it in favor of making her soldier, Mary gets to be in med school. Also Kate and Bette have a very tumultuous relationship in comics. Kate treats Bette like a child even though Bette has been a hero longer. Bette's most important ties are Kathy and the Titans (specifically Titans West). Mary has neither of those connections. And while they aren't necessary to adapting Bette they do make her distinct from her Batgirl successors.

Her Titans ties make her a foil to Dick. The last thing is that Bette is an athlete she's an olympic level tennis player, ranked fourth in the world in fact, a kickboxer, a gymnast, speaks japanese, a great swimmer, has studied sports medicine and forensic psychology, a good detective, can sew and disarm bombs, a good chemical analyst, and trained in judo. In conclusion, Mary Hamilton may try to pretend she's an adaptation of Bette Kane, she's not. She barely resembles Bette character-wise & I'm hoping that the Bette I fell in love with 5 years ago shows up in a future season as Flamebird. Also, not every character has to suit up

[Oberon]

the whole Mary thing has given me a lot of conflicting feelings. Because I do like Mary, quite a bit. But I remember when the casting calls came out and the role that was revealed to be Mary Hamilton read like Bette, I was thrilled that she was finally getting adapted and then they casted Nicole and i was like, okay, an Asian Bette would be cool. I figured they were going to have her be biracial.

Then she was announced to be Kate's stepsister and I was really disappointed and unhappy. Because it jettisons all chance of Mary being independent. Bette because she pre-existed before Kate didn't have the problem of being reliant on another character. She was a Titan who used to be Batfam. That was her, she only got tied to Kate post-Elegy but even then she still did Titan cameos. Then they announced the character's name was going to be Mary and my hopes just all shattered. yes Mary Elizabeth is Bette's first name in the comics but not many people know that. By not calling her Bette/Betty you have destroyed her chance at escaping obscurity. I'm going to be bitter about that for a long time. Last thing is that Mary doesn't have a lot of Bette's personality/motivations.

Bette is hot-headed, impulsive, bitchy, dramatic, caring, and an adrenaline junkie. Mary only gets the caring bit. They do share the trait of being doctors but while Bette being a doctor got derailed by people just forgetting about it in favor of making her soldier, Mary gets to be in med school. Also Kate and Bette have a very tumultuous relationship in comics. Kate treats Bette like a child even though Bette has been a hero longer. Bette's most important ties are Kathy and the Titans (specifically Titans West). Mary has neither of those connections. And while they aren't necessary to adapting Bette they do make her distinct from her Batgirl successors.

Her Titans ties make her a foil to Dick. The last thing is that Bette is an athlete she's an olympic level tennis player, ranked fourth in the world in fact, a kickboxer, a gymnast, speaks japanese, a great swimmer, has studied sports medicine and forensic psychology, a good detective, can sew and disarm bombs, a good chemical analyst, and trained in judo. In conclusion, Mary Hamilton may try to pretend she's an adaptation of Bette Kane, she's not. She barely resembles Bette character-wise & I'm hoping that the Bette I fell in love with 5 years ago shows up in a future season as Flamebird. Also, not every character has to suit up

This, friend, is a wonderful summation and so very true.

I just (well a few ago) realized that the ongoing debate about her worth or right to be included also centers around a point.

She, like some other characters, did transcend a basic line or demarcation. She went from Silver Age to Bronze. And though she didn't figure into COIEs or my memory just can't find that one panel, lol, she was recreated for post Crisis DC with 'Flamebird'. Someone saw something there, and I'm grateful. I wish others could understand this too.

Even the original Batwoman transcended the Silver Age and eventually saw a new role and persona.

I agree with you about liking but not quite liking 'Mary' as a proxy for Bette in the CW show, but I'm not expecting them to follow canon, they don't.

I just don't want anything there to change 'Bette'. So far so good. No 'secretly' been biracial and y'all never knew stuff, for me.

[Oberon]

Just had a thought that makes me 'something' in my mouth a little.

CW is not beholden to anything with DC properties unless it has been optioned somewhere else?

So they could make Mary or someone into 'Bat/-/girl' if they wanted.

[Tsukiakari1203]

This, friend, is a wonderful summation and so very true.

I just (well a few ago) realized that the ongoing debate about her worth or right to be included also centers around a point.

She, like some other characters, did transcend a basic line or demarcation. She went from Silver Age to Bronze. And though she didn't figure into COIEs or my memory just can't find that one panel, lol, she was recreated for post Crisis DC with 'Flamebird'. Someone saw something there, and I'm grateful. I wish others could understand this too.

Even the original Batwoman transcended the Silver Age and eventually saw a new role and persona.

I agree with you about liking but not quite liking 'Mary' as a proxy for Bette in the CW show, but I'm not expecting them to follow canon, they don't.

I just don't want anything there to change 'Bette'. So far so good. No 'secretly' been biracial and y'all never knew stuff, for me.

i think bette and kathy didn't need to changed, just updated. I am so glad she returned post COIE