Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2019

[Kyer]

I believe a certain editor was firmly entrenched by then so...
Nope. Can't think of a one.

Okay, the closest I can think of is Rebirth #1 if you consider that a solo.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

In King's defence, I do think he does actually love the character and thinks that what he has done with Wally will serve him in the long run. He's certainly correct that this is the first time that Wally has been central to anything in the DCU since his own title was cancelled - aside for the Rebirth one-shot, of course. I just think he doesn't actually understand the character as much as he thinks he does (the entirety of issue 9 proves that) and that a story like HiC doesn't fit Wally at all. I understand that he thinks that Wally is fundamentally changed because he was brought back without his family - which was indeed a massive problem as long as there was a chance that he might remember them - but none of that changes that Wally was THE superhero who loved being a superhero, not to mention a master at controlling the Speed Force.

Sadly, it's often the case that a character's biggest fan should be the last person actually writing them.

Call me a King apologist but however much I hate HiC, I don't think it was ever Tom King's intent to destroy Wally or to further alienate the character's fans. He just massively misjudged the whole thing. Sadly, this is the flip side of ambitious writers who swing for the fences. We've had Vision, Mister Miracle and Omega Men so Heroes in Crisis now seems like the inevitable flip side to these ambitious successes. I generally prefer writers who do swing for the fences and miss than mediocre writers who stick safely to the bland and uninteresting. Unfortunately, this was a GIGANTIC miss and it was just a further blow to one of DC's most beloved characters who has unquestionably been treated like crap for 99% of the past ten years - so it's rather harder to forgive it.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

In King's defence, I do think he does actually love the character and thinks that what he has done with Wally will serve him in the long run. He's certainly correct that this is the first time that Wally has been central to anything in the DCU since his own title was cancelled - aside for the Rebirth one-shot, of course. I just think he doesn't actually understand the character as much as he thinks he does (the entirety of issue 9 proves that) and that a story like HiC doesn't fit Wally at all. I understand that he thinks that Wally is fundamentally changed because he was brought back without his family - which was indeed a massive problem as long as there was a chance that he might remember them - but none of that changes that Wally was THE superhero who loved being a superhero, not to mention a master at controlling the Speed Force.

Sadly, it's often the case that a character's biggest fan should be the last person actually writing them.

Call me a King apologist but however much I hate HiC, I don't think it was ever Tom King's intent to destroy Wally or to further alienate the character's fans. He just massively misjudged the whole thing. Sadly, this is the flip side of ambitious writers who swing for the fences. We've had Vision, Mister Miracle and Omega Men so Heroes in Crisis now seems like the inevitable flip side to these ambitious successes. I generally prefer writers who do swing for the fences and miss than mediocre writers who stick safely to the bland and uninteresting. Unfortunately, this was a GIGANTIC miss and it was just a further blow to one of DC's most beloved characters who has unquestionably been treated like crap for 99% of the past ten years - so it's rather harder to forgive it.

I am of the same mind. King swung big and whiffed it big. He simply didn't understand the central appeal of Wally West to the vast majority of fans. Add that on top of years and years of editorial neglect & mismanagement and you've got a complete disaster.

[theoneandonly]

perhaps the didio faction are going to ensure that the crappy version of Wally is going to feature prominently until a change of management. of course they may just leave him where he is buried and forgotten. it would require something similar to waids touch to fix all the mess.

[Kyer]

I am starting to wonder if it is even feasible that we can hope for an After-Didio renaissance for Wally in any book. Didn't someone in this thread state that Didio hand-picked his people in charge? Those in charge can make the rules and hire the people who make it darn hard for change to happen after they are gone. They want to make sure their changes are as permanent as possible?

[dornwolf]

In King's defence, I do think he does actually love the character and thinks that what he has done with Wally will serve him in the long run. He's certainly correct that this is the first time that Wally has been central to anything in the DCU since his own title was cancelled - aside for the Rebirth one-shot, of course. I just think he doesn't actually understand the character as much as he thinks he does (the entirety of issue 9 proves that) and that a story like HiC doesn't fit Wally at all. I understand that he thinks that Wally is fundamentally changed because he was brought back without his family - which was indeed a massive problem as long as there was a chance that he might remember them - but none of that changes that Wally was THE superhero who loved being a superhero, not to mention a master at controlling the Speed Force.

Sadly, it's often the case that a character's biggest fan should be the last person actually writing them.

Call me a King apologist but however much I hate HiC, I don't think it was ever Tom King's intent to destroy Wally or to further alienate the character's fans. He just massively misjudged the whole thing. Sadly, this is the flip side of ambitious writers who swing for the fences. We've had Vision, Mister Miracle and Omega Men so Heroes in Crisis now seems like the inevitable flip side to these ambitious successes. I generally prefer writers who do swing for the fences and miss than mediocre writers who stick safely to the bland and uninteresting. Unfortunately, this was a GIGANTIC miss and it was just a further blow to one of DC's most beloved characters who has unquestionably been treated like crap for 99% of the past ten years - so it's rather harder to forgive it.

Oh as bad as HiC is I don't think he was purposely going out to do what happened. When you read his interviews he honestly thinks he's doing a good thing. Sadly he slightly has a point in that Wally has been neglected, but that lands squarely with editorial from before the New 52 and right up to doing/allowing nothing with the character after Rebirth.

[Konja7]

In King's defence, I do think he does actually love the character and thinks that what he has done with Wally will serve him in the long run. He's certainly correct that this is the first time that Wally has been central to anything in the DCU since his own title was cancelled - aside for the Rebirth one-shot, of course. I just think he doesn't actually understand the character as much as he thinks he does (the entirety of issue 9 proves that) and that a story like HiC doesn't fit Wally at all. I understand that he thinks that Wally is fundamentally changed because he was brought back without his family - which was indeed a massive problem as long as there was a chance that he might remember them - but none of that changes that Wally was THE superhero who loved being a superhero, not to mention a master at controlling the Speed Force.

Sadly, it's often the case that a character's biggest fan should be the last person actually writing them.

Call me a King apologist but however much I hate HiC, I don't think it was ever Tom King's intent to destroy Wally or to further alienate the character's fans. He just massively misjudged the whole thing. Sadly, this is the flip side of ambitious writers who swing for the fences. We've had Vision, Mister Miracle and Omega Men so Heroes in Crisis now seems like the inevitable flip side to these ambitious successes. I generally prefer writers who do swing for the fences and miss than mediocre writers who stick safely to the bland and uninteresting. Unfortunately, this was a GIGANTIC miss and it was just a further blow to one of DC's most beloved characters who has unquestionably been treated like crap for 99% of the past ten years - so it's rather harder to forgive it.

Yeah. I don't think King hates Wally. He just like to put characters in these kind of situations.

He is also tormenting Batman in his comic. Of course, the difference is DC won't allow King going too far in this aspect.

[byrd156]

Oh as bad as HiC is I don't think he was purposely going out to do what happened. When you read his interviews he honestly thinks he's doing a good thing. Sadly he slightly has a point in that Wally has been neglected, but that lands squarely with editorial from before the New 52 and right up to doing/allowing nothing with the character after Rebirth.

I don't believe King purposely was going out of his way to damage Wally as a character. That's what I find this whole situation so infuriating, depressing and saddening about this story. I understand the story and ideas King wanted to convey with this story but it felt like he had too much free reign to do whatever he wanted.

Editors need to hold writers accountable and hold them to a certain standard, editors are shepherds for writers. They need to give them room of course but also have a strong understanding of these characters. An editor should pick up an issue of this and say this isn't Wally or Babs or Booster. Character consistently is the most important continuity in comics, you can ignore or reference stories all you like but if Wally or Superman or whomever is different issue to issue, story to story why would anyone want to follow a character like that? Characters need to be more than just specific mouthpieces for stories, use them to say something but have them say it in a way they would. Wally wouldn't bring about a message of losing and reclaiming hope by killing himself, or coverup the accidental killings of a bunch of heroes especially Roy. Wally wouldn't be so heartless.

[Darkcrusade25]

It just gets me upset that TK was told to use those 3 char instead of pre-chosen them

[BohemiaDrinker]

Editors need to hold writers accountable and hold them to a certain standard.

But they do. The standard of "serving a function".

If Wally was looking good, I'm sure they'd have stepped int.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It just gets me upset that TK was told to use those 3 char instead of pre-chosen them

Or didn't say "no".

Word on the rumor mill back in the day is that Dan wanted to make Wally a villain, Manapul refused and Daniel was the resultant compromise.

[dornwolf]

I don't believe King purposely was going out of his way to damage Wally as a character. That's what I find this whole situation so infuriating, depressing and saddening about this story. I understand the story and ideas King wanted to convey with this story but it felt like he had too much free reign to do whatever he wanted.

Editors need to hold writers accountable and hold them to a certain standard, editors are shepherds for writers. They need to give them room of course but also have a strong understanding of these characters. An editor should pick up an issue of this and say this isn't Wally or Babs or Booster. Character consistently is the most important continuity in comics, you can ignore or reference stories all you like but if Wally or Superman or whomever is different issue to issue, story to story why would anyone want to follow a character like that? Characters need to be more than just specific mouthpieces for stories, use them to say something but have them say it in a way they would. Wally wouldn't bring about a message of losing and reclaiming hope by killing himself, or coverup the accidental killings of a bunch of heroes especially Roy. Wally wouldn't be so heartless.

I think that it just feedback loops into King being handed a list. He's openly said that his characters were basically chosen for him by higher ups. Wally, Booster, Harley. Now let's look at that. Out of those three no way in hell was DC going to allow him to make Harley the killer. They've been trying so hard to make a her a "thing" like Deadpool that it'd kill what ever momentum they think they have. Although all the momentum comes from a movie that everyone audibly groans over and women only like Harley because it's an excuse to dress trampy as that's the only version they dress up as. So that leaves Wally and Booster. So again I can see why he chose to go with Wally because as he says he likes Wally and thinks this pushes him back to the forefront. However he bungled it. Between him and editorial they didn't in any way create a believable reason for any of it. He forced the characters to fit what was basically a pre-written story and like everyone says filled in the blanks and when called on it people rush in to defend it. Seriously, did anyone read the Booster article CBR posted asking if it was a "different Booster" entirely and that we could have a Booster-point. That's the extent people are going to defend it.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I don't believe King purposely was going out of his way to damage Wally as a character. That's what I find this whole situation so infuriating, depressing and saddening about this story. I understand the story and ideas King wanted to convey with this story but it felt like he had too much free reign to do whatever he wanted.

Editors need to hold writers accountable and hold them to a certain standard, editors are shepherds for writers. They need to give them room of course but also have a strong understanding of these characters. An editor should pick up an issue of this and say this isn't Wally or Babs or Booster. Character consistently is the most important continuity in comics, you can ignore or reference stories all you like but if Wally or Superman or whomever is different issue to issue, story to story why would anyone want to follow a character like that? Characters need to be more than just specific mouthpieces for stories, use them to say something but have them say it in a way they would. Wally wouldn't bring about a message of losing and reclaiming hope by killing himself, or coverup the accidental killings of a bunch of heroes especially Roy. Wally wouldn't be so heartless.

Except don't forget that it was editorial that forced King to use Wally in this manner. His portrayals of Harley and Booster may not rank among the best but he did a perfectly OK job. The real character assassination here was Wally West, who was specifically chosen by (presumably?) Didio, presumably specifically to further drag the character down. And I still can't believe that I'm even typing such a sentence. Having a publisher going out of their way to specifically sink one of their best loved characters is bizarre beyond words.

[Konja7]

Except don't forget that it was editorial that forced King to use Wally in this manner. His portrayals of Harley and Booster may not rank among the best but he did a perfectly OK job. The real character assassination here was Wally West, who was specifically chosen by (presumably?) Didio, presumably specifically to further drag the character down. And I still can't believe that I'm even typing such a sentence. Having a publisher going out of their way to specifically sink one of their best loved characters is bizarre beyond words.

I don't think King was forced.

The idea about about a hero killing a group of other heroes was from King. In itself, that's a pretty problematic idea.

DC (likely Didio) chose Wally for this. However, I don't think King has problems with this.

Wally "works" for his idea, since he wants to torment the hero for the murder of the other heroes. Also, Wally is popular.

[Bruce Wayne]

Except don't forget that it was editorial that forced King to use Wally in this manner. His portrayals of Harley and Booster may not rank among the best but he did a perfectly OK job. The real character assassination here was Wally West, who was specifically chosen by (presumably?) Didio, presumably specifically to further drag the character down. And I still can't believe that I'm even typing such a sentence. Having a publisher going out of their way to specifically sink one of their best loved characters is bizarre beyond words.

Is it? I have posted this page before, but Didio from day one has been trying to sink Wally for the sake of his project of restoring Barry Allen. Didio is in many ways a fan who has been given the keys to the kingdom and he is trying assert what he thinks the DCU should be and that means Barry Allen as Flash/Hal as Green Lanterns (and apparently Barbara Gordon as Batgirl). We have known this for along time (this page for example dates from 2008). Didio simply cannot tolerate Wally as he is now because he is a legitimate alternative to Barry as Flash and he knows both creators and fans love the character. If he sinks Wally West as a character and destroys his fanbase there is a better chance Barry Allen can stick around and all the effort he went to wasn't for nothing . He has seen what happened with Hal/Kyle and HEAT.