Red Hood and the Outlaws #15 Preview/Discussion

[TheCape]

I read her zero issue and after being kicked out of the military, she trained with 2 frieds of her father that pretty much made him the skilled that she is today. I'm not a fan of her by the way, just sharing information .

[The Whovian]

Bizarro wanted to get captured and eventually taken to Belle Reve, based on his narration. Why, we don't know. Jason and Artemis were unaware of this. I thought it went pretty fairly otherwise.

I get that. But at least make it look good. One panel Bizarro is flying towards Batwoman. The very next panel, she's behind him popping a pill into his mouth. How did that happen?

I just didn't like the way it played out is all. And Jason and Artemis, while worrying about Bizarro, should still be a bigger threat than they were.

[The Whovian]

My biggest issue with this is Batwoman. I just think she's an extremely overrated character. I don't understand how she's supposed to be such a badass when she has so little experience. I've heard people say she has military experience but she doesn't. She was kicked out of a military academy. Trust me, when a second lieutenant comes out of an academy they don't know ****. I get that she may have had some additional training from her dad but I just don't see how she would be made a leader over others. I think Red Hood should have been able to take her easily since he's been doing it longer and was trained directly by Batman.

She has trained with her father, his friends, Batman and others. Batwoman is very skilled and highly intelligent when it comes to strategy.

[Caivu]

My biggest issue with this is Batwoman. I just think she's an extremely overrated character.

Booooooo.

I don't understand how she's supposed to be such a badass when she has so little experience.

Well, define "little experience".

- She survived getting stabbed in the heart and used the same knife to kill her attacker after ripping it out of her chest.
- She saved Gotham from being wiped out in a chemical warfare attack.
- She helped capture Bane at one point.
- She rescued a dozen missing children from a cult after almost a year on the case.
- She petrified a demigod and shattered her with a punch.
- She blew off half of another demigod's face with an arrow after stabbing it into his eye.
- She's KO'd Batman twice.
- She helped shut down a Brazilian sweatshop and recovered critical evidence that exonerated Jim Gordon.
- She saved the city of Dubai from a hypnotic radio antenna that was controlling its children.
- She was capable of tracking Batman soon after bwcoming Batwoman, and did so for five consecutive nights.
- (This one might not be canon anymore, but whatever) At one point she got paralyzed by a cave-in and deliberately OD'd on some of Dick's morphine so she could recover by way of a nearby Lazarus Pit.

That's just a few things.

I've heard people say she has military experience but she doesn't. She was kicked out of a military academy. Trust me, when a second lieutenant comes out of an academy they don't know ****. I get that she may have had some additional training from her dad but I just don't see how she would be made a leader over others.

She achieved an extremely high leadership rank at West Point, and had a serious shot at becoming the highest-ranking cadet before she was dimissed (willingly, I might add).
She also had about two solid years of every type of special forces training in the world, and briefly lead a small team of misfits.

I think Red Hood should have been able to take her easily since he's been doing it longer and was trained directly by Batman.

I don't know about "easily", friend. Win or lose, Jason would have his hands full there.

[magpieM]

Just finished reading it.

1. Wow what a group fight ! Before reading it I imagined that Red Hood would only repeating aimless gun shots. I think overall it is a really greater one than the boss fight in Quarc! Amazing art again.

I must confess: I can't stop laughing when I saw Jason ended up with a nearly naked back + big hole on his magical jacket (which used to be constantly floating even without wind...)

2. Bizarro knew TEC's move and let them catch him intentionally. And I have a feeling that he'd planned to drag Jason and Artemis into this.

3. I think TEC's (especially Kate's) attitude is reasonable. Even if they knew that Batman somehow approved Outlaws working under cover, too many things have changed since the night when Jason & Bruce ate burgers together. The biggest change is Bizarro, who is now doing something big that alerts the TEC. I think Kate and TEC didn't have enough time to tell Bizarro what they were suspecting or what information they'd found out about what Bizarro is doing before Outlaws broke in. And I think they'd made the backup plan before the kidnapping: if things turn out to be nasty they'd send them to her.

[magpieM]

And I'm OK with those crossovers, because what Bizarro's doing would certainly draw attentions. And those crossovers will occupy his precious time before his condition returns to "normal". By the end of those chaos, he would become very unstable at any second. Things can be very dramatic.

And I don't think those crossovers were totally forced. At least not for the Harley's case. Jason mentioned that he was treated by Dr Quinzel in volume 1 when there was no editor change yet. So this crossover is not all of a sudden. They've rooted this clue in the story line long ago.

[The Whovian]

- She's KO'd Batman twice.

Remind me what issues these happened in again Caivu. I don't remember her doing this unless she had help. Not that I don't believe you, but IIRC, she had some help.

[RedBird]

And I don't think those crossovers were totally forced. At least not for the Harley's case. Jason mentioned that he was treated by Dr Quinzel in volume 1 when there was no editor change yet. So this crossover is not all of a sudden. They've rooted this clue in the story line long ago.

Thats pretty much what I'm hoping is the case as well, that this crossover with SS aka the Harley Team squad, lets be real, was not just the sudden intrusion of editorial, but part is a seed that was already planted for the outlaws story (like when he had Jason mention Harley earlier). Perhaps thanks to the move in office things were forced a little, but hopefully it was simply a matter of a story aspect that was already planned to be done in the future by Lobdell, being sped up rather than created on the fly.

[RedBird]

Hey its a long shot, but humor me on this theory, does anyone else suspect that Batwoman (TEC) and Biz may have been in cahoots with each other? At least to a degree? It might help to explain their behavior more.

[The Whovian]

Hey its a long shot, but humor me on this theory, does anyone else suspect that Batwoman (TEC) and Biz may have been in cahoots with each other? At least to a degree? It might help to explain their behavior more.

That would explain some things. But then, why not just let your team in on it?

[Caivu]

Remind me what issues these happened in again Caivu. I don't remember her doing this unless she had help. Not that I don't believe you, but IIRC, she had some help.

One was in Batwoman Annual #1, which happened after they'd been fighting for a while. The second was during the Gothtopia event; Batman was allowing himself to be captured, but legitimately got knocked out, and Kate was the one to do it.

[RedBird]

That would explain some things. But then, why not just let your team in on it?

Maybe cause he doesnt want his team to know of just how much control he is actually losing? That he is afraid of himself and doesnt want them to think badly of him, the fact that he is trying to keep up this image of stability was obvious for the past two issues.

[The Whovian]

One was in Batwoman Annual #1, which happened after they'd been fighting for a while. The second was during the Gothtopia event; Batman was allowing himself to be captured, but legitimately got knocked out, and Kate was the one to do it.

He was toying with Batwoman in the Annual. Even said so after she tied him up. They didn't fight in Gothtopia.

I do have these scans though of her absolutely thrashing Batgirl

[Caivu]

He was toying with Batwoman in the Annual. Even said so after she tied him up. They didn't fight in Gothtopia.

I know both of those things. In the first, he'd still been caught in an explosion, had a wall dropped on him, been in another explosion, and almost drowned. The point in both cases is that she's strong enough to KO him within two hits (and to a smaller extent, that she's capable of successfully ambushing him).

[G-Potion]

That would explain some things. But then, why not just let your team in on it?

I think Bizarro is desperate to be useful to Jason, and he knows the responses he would get from both his teammates if he's to tell them about his condition. They wouldn't let Bizarro push himself nor let Bizarro undersell himself, and that goest against what Bizarro thinks he needs to do.