"The Flash Is Not About Tragedy": Wally West Appreciation! (NO NUWALLY BASHING!!!)

[Lee]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[The Darknight Detective]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Also...

"Don't see fanboy machinations in people whose #1 priority, beyond any other, is to make more money for their company."

[KoriandrJean]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Also...

"Don't see fanboy machinations in people whose #1 priority, beyond any other, is to make more money for their company."

Ted Kord begs to disagree.

Stupidity is brutally killing off a beloved hero, and then thinking that all one has to do to soothe the fans is put his name on someone else. The malice kicks in when, after the new Beetle's book doesn't get the sales needed to survive, any and all attempts to bring back the original hero are systematically thwarted, his name and reputation are systematically eliminated to force the fans to forget, and to add insult to injury, his murderer is resurrected - but he is not.

If Didio had really wanted to make money, he would have let Ted retire into the sunset, and then come back to mentor Jaime, which would have pleased Ted's fans. In the first place, that is.

Or else, they would have let him a very official, public Rebirth.

We have neither.

Ted and Jaime's book has no marketing support whatsoever, nor are they being cross-referenced in any potential team books. And, there was plenty of public documentation of Didio's disdain of Ted, not to mention his implied refusal to allow Ted back in any way, shape, or form.

Which tells me that Didio still doesn't want to acknowledge that he made a mistake, amongst many others, by killing off Ted, instead of letting him retire to a mentoring role with his successor. A move that would have pleased Ted's fans and made them Jaime's fans as well. Instead of leaving all that money on the table.

[The Darknight Detective]

Ted Kord begs to disagree.

Stupidity is brutally killing off a beloved hero, and then thinking that all one has to do to soothe the fans is put his name on someone else. The malice kicks in when, after the new Beetle's book doesn't get the sales needed to survive, any and all attempts to bring back the original hero are systematically thwarted, his name and reputation are systematically eliminated to force the fans to forget, and to add insult to injury, his murderer is resurrected - but he is not.

If Didio had really wanted to make money, he would have let Ted retire into the sunset, and then come back to mentor Jaime, which would have pleased Ted's fans. In the first place, that is.

Or else, they would have let him a very official, public Rebirth.

We have neither.

Ted and Jaime's book has no marketing support whatsoever, nor are they being cross-referenced in any potential team books. And, there was plenty of public documentation of Didio's disdain of Ted, not to mention his implied refusal to allow Ted back in any way, shape, or form.

Which tells me that Didio still doesn't want to acknowledge that he made a mistake, amongst many others, by killing off Ted, instead of letting him retire to a mentoring role with his successor. A move that would have pleased Ted's fans and made them Jaime's fans as well. Instead of leaving all that money on the table.

Ted Kord was killed off for the same reason others before and after him were eliminated (Barry, Kara Zor-El, Hal, etc.): they were expendable and it helped sales. I know it hurts if you actually like the character in question (I know this from personal experience), but it's hard to question the strategy at least on a financial basis.

[KoriandrJean]

Ted Kord was killed off for the same reason others before and after him were eliminated (Barry, Kara Zor-El, Hal, etc.): they were expendable and it helped sales. I know it hurts if you actually like the character in question (I know this from personal experience), but it's hard to question the strategy at least on a financial basis.

Until it starts backfiring on you.

Nonetheless, I'm quite glad that Ted and Wally1 are back; and that Wally2 is developing into a superhero in his own right.

[Waterfall]

We'll see what happens in 2017, it's pointless to argue that's been proven by company's own mouth over and over again. Considering the same guys are in charge and we have worrisome clues like Direct Currents, we have a right to be concerned. You can't just erase what happened in the past decade.

I also don't think debating Blue Beetle on this thread is appopriate either.

[The Darknight Detective]

Until it starts backfiring on you.

That may very well be the case at some point, Kori. Still, that would be a strategic error rather than a deliberate attempt to aggravate a lot of people.

[KoriandrJean]

We'll see what happens in 2017, it's pointless to argue that's been proven by company's own mouth over and over again. Considering the same guys are in charge and we have worrisome clues like Direct Currents, we have a right to be concerned. You can't just erase what happened in the past decade.

I also don't think debating Blue Beetle on this thread is appopriate either.

Even when it is a perfect example of the editorial sabotaging you so passionately decry?

Having said that, it looks as if DC is trying to set things right with the Flash Family, while adding Wally2 to the mix. So perhaps, all of this hasn't been in vain.

[Atlanta96]

When it comes to higher-ups, always assume the worst. Pretending everything's alright has consequences.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

That may very well be the case at some point, Kori. Still, that would be a strategic error rather than a deliberate attempt to aggravate a lot of people.

Except there is plenty of documented evidence of Dan Didio, when interacting with fans at conventions over the years, doing exactly that -- deliberately attempting to aggravate fans of characters he has repeatedly made clear he does not care for or views as 'redundant' whenever those fans have asked about if there were any plans to use or bring back those characters in any way, shape, or form. As well as open admissions on his part that he took the job of editor-in-chief with a deliberate agenda of bringing back certain characters and that his preferred versions of most if not all characters are the Silver Age versions (i.e., the ones he grew up reading about).

That he does not see the point of characters who started as child sidekicks being allowed to grow up into adults and into successful non-sidekick heroes in their own right, and that he views various light-hearted and comedic takes on certain characters and teams, no matter how successful they were or how much money they made for the company at the time or afterwards, as doing mostly irreparable harm and damage to those characters and teams. (Giffen/DeMatteis-era JLI, Peter David's entire Young Justice run.)

We have documented evidence in the comics that were printed during his term as EIC of a long-term program of killing off new characters, starting with those deemed most recently created and working their way backwards, in various issues of ongoing titles as well as in big event mini-series and one-shots. Characters from books that had been cancelled, from various line-ups of teams that weren't being used, characters that not been used or made appearances in months or years, would randomly show up in a book or mini and inevitably end up being killed off by the end of the issue, just a few pages later, on the same page they appeared on, or even in the same panel they showed up in. Often those deaths were merely incidental to the story being told or happened just for the sake of killing them off.

We have Didio's own open admissions of characters that he specifically targeted for death, as well as CBR articles about him sharing with CBR expanded "kill lists" of characters and status quos targeted for termination in big events both published and scrapped, whether those terminations actually happened or not. What strikes me about those kill lists is that, taken along with the characters who actually were killed off or had their status quos changed, the overwhelming majority originated or rose to prominence during the 90's, or had ties to the JSA/Golden Age/Earth-II, or could be considered "legacy" characters.

We have various creators openly admitting that their repeated requests to use or re-introduce certain fan-favorite characters in the New 52 were repeatedly denied, that at least two such characters had been labelled "toxic" by the higher ups (and that both such characters had been the victims of previous deliberate editorial sabotage), that an attempt to use one such character in a non-New-52-continuity title was halted at virtually the last minute (publishing) because somebody in editorial found out and demanded that another character from a very short list of approved "alternates" be used in her place, and creators basically telling fans that all it took was one person higher up in the DC food chain who personally disliked a character to keep that character from being used, period. No matter how many creators wanted to use said characters, no matter how many fans wanted to see said characters, no matter how many fans were willing to pay for books in which those characters appeared (and were treated with respect). That's money being left on the table because somebody high up the food chain at DC didn't like one or more characters and refused to let them appear anywhere in books being published by DC Comics.

Sooner or later, people who refuse to take their rose-colored glasses of DC upper management and editorial acting strictly professional and not letting their own personal biases affect or dictate how they perform their jobs, are either going to have to voluntarily take off those glasses or else reality will smack them off for them.

[KoriandrJean]

Except there is plenty of documented evidence of Dan Didio, when interacting with fans at conventions over the years, doing exactly that -- deliberately attempting to aggravate fans of characters he has repeatedly made clear he does not care for or views as 'redundant' whenever those fans have asked about if there were any plans to use or bring back those characters in any way, shape, or form. As well as open admissions on his part that he took the job of editor-in-chief with a deliberate agenda of bringing back certain characters and that his preferred versions of most if not all characters are the Silver Age versions (i.e., the ones he grew up reading about).

That he does not see the point of characters who started as child sidekicks being allowed to grow up into adults and into successful non-sidekick heroes in their own right, and that he views various light-hearted and comedic takes on certain characters and teams, no matter how successful they were or how much money they made for the company at the time or afterwards, as doing mostly irreparable harm and damage to those characters and teams. (Giffen/DeMatteis-era JLI, Peter David's entire Young Justice run.)

We have documented evidence in the comics that were printed during his term as EIC of a long-term program of killing off new characters, starting with those deemed most recently created and working their way backwards, in various issues of ongoing titles as well as in big event mini-series and one-shots. Characters from books that had been cancelled, from various line-ups of teams that weren't being used, characters that not been used or made appearances in months or years, would randomly show up in a book or mini and inevitably end up being killed off by the end of the issue, just a few pages later, on the same page they appeared on, or even in the same panel they showed up in. Often those deaths were merely incidental to the story being told or happened just for the sake of killing them off.

We have Didio's own open admissions of characters that he specifically targeted for death, as well as CBR articles about him sharing with CBR expanded "kill lists" of characters and status quos targeted for termination in big events both published and scrapped, whether those terminations actually happened or not. What strikes me about those kill lists is that, taken along with the characters who actually were killed off or had their status quos changed, the overwhelming majority originated or rose to prominence during the 90's, or had ties to the JSA/Golden Age/Earth-II, or could be considered "legacy" characters.

We have various creators openly admitting that their repeated requests to use or re-introduce certain fan-favorite characters in the New 52 were repeatedly denied, that at least two such characters had been labelled "toxic" by the higher ups (and that both such characters had been the victims of previous deliberate editorial sabotage), that an attempt to use one such character in a non-New-52-continuity title was halted at virtually the last minute (publishing) because somebody in editorial found out and demanded that another character from a very short list of approved "alternates" be used in her place, and creators basically telling fans that all it took was one person higher up in the DC food chain who personally disliked a character to keep that character from being used, period. No matter how many creators wanted to use said characters, no matter how many fans wanted to see said characters, no matter how many fans were willing to pay for books in which those characters appeared (and were treated with respect). That's money being left on the table because somebody high up the food chain at DC didn't like one or more characters and refused to let them appear anywhere in books being published by DC Comics.

Sooner or later, people who refuse to take their rose-colored glasses of DC upper management and editorial acting strictly professional and not letting their own personal biases affect or dictate how they perform their jobs, are either going to have to voluntarily take off those glasses or else reality will smack them off for them.

Wow! Do you think that the long-term efforts of the fans at the conventions (and elsewhere) finally ... persuaded ... Didio to let Wally1, Ted Kord, and others finally come back in Rebirth? Certainly, it does seem to have revived DC's sales, and put it above Marvel.

At least so much that Marvel decided to follow the same course and start reviving the X-Men.

[Lhynn]

Sounds a lot like Didio just wants to protect the DC iconic feel.
Which doesnt explain how robin war, a book that basically destroys the batman mythos if taken seriously, got printed.

[The Darknight Detective]

Sooner or later, people who refuse to take their rose-colored glasses of DC upper management and editorial acting strictly professional and not letting their own personal biases affect or dictate how they perform their jobs, are either going to have to voluntarily take off those glasses or else reality will smack them off for them.

It's just common sense - their job and salary are more important to them than any character. Would anybody here do what people charge Didio of doing? Unless you don't have to answer to anyone and you don't mind hemorrhaging money, you're going to do what you think will help the bottom line.

Now if a character is not selling well, sure you might toss him or her aside for a pet one of your own. But management is not going to toss a character that's selling above average for one they like better. Again, would anyone here do so if your salary and reputation here depended on it (I know many of you would do so otherwise )? Of course, I don't really believe I'm going to convince some of you about this. Every character who has been either killed off and/or replaced in DC history were because of diabolical types, I guess.

Muwuhahahaha!

[Godlike13]

Didio admittedly positions himself as a lightning rod. To be fair to Didio though, the one character that i know of where he himself has actually said he had something against and wanted gone, he eventually came around after fans spoke up. A lot of the other cases where people claim he hates so and so, or he has something against so and so, is more or less fan speculation. Based off perception and things heard through the grapevine.

Regardless DC not only brought Wally back, they brought him and the Titans to the forefront of DC with Rebirth. Right now the Titans problem isn't lack of support from DC but quality. Creatively the book itself isn't anything special. Its uninspired, it looks dated, moves too slowly, and the characterizations are rather boring. Its just riding Wally and the Titans being back together.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

It's just common sense - their job and salary are more important to them than any character. Would anybody here do what people charge Didio of doing? Unless you don't have to answer to anyone and you don't mind hemorrhaging money, you're going to do what you think will help the bottom line.

Now if a character is not selling well, sure you might toss him or her aside for a pet one of your own. But management is not going to toss a character that's selling above average for one they like better. Again, would anyone here do so if your salary and reputation here depended on it (I know many of you would do so otherwise )? Of course, I don't really believe I'm going to convince some of you about this. Every character who has been either killed off and/or replaced in DC history were because of diabolical types, I guess.

Muwuhahahaha!

History and reality have proven you completely and utterly in the wrong time and time again. Anything else I might say would get me in trouble here.