Jean & Scott- The Phoenix & Cyclops Appreciation 2019

[Retcon]

To be fair, they got, what, an issue out of that one? A cover? It seemed to be discarded as quickly as it was hinted at.

The way adult Beast planted the seeds was so creepy. Bendis got a couple of issues out of it. Beast was constantly CBing Scott every chance he got. Bendis trolled us with UXM#600. They had an off panel relationship during a time skip,wasn’t really relevant because a new writer came along and Jean dismissed him as “kissing her brother “. That’s what u get Beast,your in a worse place than the “friend zone” you’re in the “brother zone”.

[Omega Alpha]

Seeing his father would have baffled Nate Grey but not enough to change the course of the battle imo

I'm not saying merely seeing Scott would have baffled X-man, just that Scott could have attacked and maybe even killed/incapacitated Nate without him anticipating it.

Or at least Cyke could come up with something better than "let's throw every X-man member at him and sees if it works".

The way adult Beast planted the seeds was so creepy. Bendis got a couple of issues out of it. Beast was constantly CBing Scott every chance he got. Bendis trolled us with UXM#600. They had an off panel relationship during a time skip,wasn’t really relevant because a new writer came along and Jean dismissed him as “kissing her brother “. That’s what u get Beast,your in a worse place than the “friend zone” you’re in the “brother zone”.

But they didn't really have a relationship,;it's just what Bendis wanted, but nothing came out of it because other writers had more common sense.

The whole thing about Hank being in love with Jean was a retcon anyway, since Warren was the one in love with Jean, not him.

[Retcon]

Hank was in love with her. He was just too much of a coward to act on it during his younger years. Warren was always open about it especially during early X-factor. The difference is Warren was a real friend and eventually gave up,he even spoke up for Scott when Creepy Logan came around.Beast on the other hand clearly carried a torch through his adulthood. In ANM#15 he basically admitted that he had been in love with her and was clearly jealous and bitter towards Scott.

[Omega Alpha]

Hank was in love with her. He was just too much of a coward to act on it during his younger years. Warren was always open about it especially during early X-factor. The difference is Warren was a real friend and eventually gave up,he even spoke up for Scott when Creepy Logan came around.Beast on the other hand clearly carried a torch through his adulthood. In ANM#15 he basically admitted that he had been in love with her and was clearly jealous and bitter towards Scott.

Nah, he had a crush on her back in the day, even because she was the only girl around, but wasn't really in love. Bendis ignored continuity to introduce a new love triangle and also to try to justify Hank's hatred of Scott, but it didn't made sense, since they were best friends for years, Scott with and without Jean.

[Retcon]

Nah, he had a crush on her back in the day, even because she was the only girl around, but wasn't really in love. Bendis ignored continuity to introduce a new love triangle and also to try to justify Hank's hatred of Scott, but it didn't made sense, since they were best friends for years, Scott with and without Jean.

I dunno. He dug his claws in during his monologue. I always thought Warren was Scott’s best bud,not Hank.

[Omega Alpha]

I dunno. He dug his claws in during his monologue. I always thought Warren was Scott’s best bud,not Hank.

Until the Utopia era, it was Hank (more notably in Morrison and Whedon's run, but during the Blue team era too, for example), although he was close to Warren too; always a little less to Bobby, though the whole 05 was like family.

[Havok83]

I also felt Warren was Scott's closest friend. In the O5 era and later X-Factor, Bobby and Hank were always paired off together and that left Scott to get most of his development with Jean and Warren.

I'm not saying merely seeing Scott would have baffled X-man, just that Scott could have attacked and maybe even killed/incapacitated Nate without him anticipating it.

Or at least Cyke could come up with something better than "let's throw every X-man member at him and sees if it works".

Scott's presence wouldnt have had any impact on the outcome. Nate was physically untouchable as he had TK shields up during that final battle

Except every X-man was thrown at Nate by the time Scott learned about the battle. Him going there wouldnt have changed what was already underway

[Omega Alpha]

Scott's presence wouldnt have had any impact on the outcome. Nate was physically untouchable as he had TK shields up during that final battle

Except every X-man was thrown at Nate by the time Scott learned about the battle. Him going there wouldnt have changed what was already underway

Scott's the leader for a reason. He managed to get the X-men through much worse being creative.

[Havok83]

Scott's the leader for a reason. He managed to get the X-men through much worse being creative.

that doesnt mean he could have stopped Nate. There was too much chaos going on and he was supposed to be dead. He wouldnt have been able to just waltz in there and take command of everything as people would assume he was some trick by Nate. His presence would have tripped Jean up, who was commanding a team of psychics against Nate. I honestly dont see how Scott could have turned the battle in a favorable direction for them

[Retcon]

that doesnt mean he could have stopped Nate. There was too much chaos going on and he was supposed to be dead. He wouldnt have been able to just waltz in there and take command of everything as people would assume he was some trick by Nate. His presence would have tripped Jean up, who was commanding a team of psychics against Nate. I honestly dont see how Scott could have turned the battle in a favorable direction for them

Correctamundo. Scott would have done
More bad than good. Everyone would be distracted including the person who was doing the most,Jean.

[Omega Alpha]

Like I said earlier, Scott had been back for days already, there was no reason for him to arrive in the middle of the battle to distract everyone, only because WiFi came up with a stupidly contrived plan to prove his worthiness or something that didn't need to exist (really an excuse by the writers for Scott not being there).

And it's not like he could have done any worse than Jean and the others did, who couldn't think of anything better than trying to overpower him. Attack Nate by surprise, depower him, have Hope copy his powers, teleport him to a volcano or something, etc, there were better options that what happened.

[Ulfhammer]

Dare we assume Scott and Jean going to say relationship counseling early into her upcoming return? Doubt it.....they both confirmed that they still have feelings for each other, and Scott had already apologized for everything leading up to Jean’s death.......but where would their relationship be at, assuming they’re back together? They both died, so technically their marriage is done, but since it’s comics (and Reed and Sue survived Reed’s presumed death and getting sucked into a Pocket Universe Franklin made).......personally, I hope that they let Scott and Jean become the mature couple that are in charge, like Lobdell wanted to do back then.....

Relationship counseling would be novel but I think at this point it's clear to both of them what happened and why. Of course they could benefit from learning some communication strategies but that's where I think you deviate too far down the art imitating life path. They are supposed to be to superheroes in love. Adding to that with a lot of real life logistics just waters down the pure romantic and heroic elements of their relationship. This is fantasy. Their love should be basically effortless. It's only these ridiculous external problems that have ever caused issues for them. If it's just the two of them figuring out how they get back together it shouldn't require a lot of effort. Time maybe, but not really effort.

So much of this comes down the rapport. If it's re-established and works the way it did in the Claremont era, things like counseling become very redundant because most of relationship counseling focuses on effective communication and accepting your partners limitations. Those are things that should never present a problem with their level of knowledge of each other, and the presence of the rapport.

What i hope is that we don't get more Jean/Scott/Emma love drama under hickman. This could only hurt the characters more and will definitely screw both relationships even more.
Marvel has been pushing that Scott loves Jean and JDW said that Jean is the love of Scott's life but with Marvel nothing is sure.

Unless Marvel's willing to meaningfully develop their relationship, which from what's been said seems very unlikely, we'll see a reset back to the relationship turbulence we saw during early X-Factor issues. Marvel can't walk back how they feel about each other. There's just been too much established there to undue without a major retcon. I think they'll end up somewhere between dating and wondering if they should. Probably both. That's way too fertile ground to not exploit Emma as a potential foil even if Marvel has no intention of ever reuniting Scott and Emma. Marvel's also done a very thorough job of showing that Emma has very deep feelings for Scott. I don't see Hickman snapping his fingers and making that all go away overnight.

I think we have to accept that Hickman is going to use the tools that present themselves to create drama and doubt. Morrison designed the triangle entirely for that reason. It'll be used to some extent at least.

[Havok83]

Like I said earlier, Scott had been back for days already, there was no reason for him to arrive in the middle of the battle to distract everyone, only because WiFi came up with a stupidly contrived plan to prove his worthiness or something that didn't need to exist (really an excuse by the writers for Scott not being there).

And it's not like he could have done any worse than Jean and the others did, who couldn't think of anything better than trying to overpower him. Attack Nate by surprise, depower him, have Hope copy his powers, teleport him to a volcano or something, etc, there were better options that what happened.

Nate has TP and TK. I dont see what Hope could do mimmicking his powers that Jean couldnt do

[Omega Alpha]

Nate has TP and TK. I dont see what Hope could do mimmicking his powers that Jean couldnt do

She could replicate his power levels, plus get Legion's too.

[Havok83]

She could replicate his power levels, plus get Legion's too.

No she couldnt. Nate was boosted by the Life Seed. Hope mimics mutant powers and would need her own life seed to get to the same levels that he was at