So, Can the Titans Finally be Saved Now?

[El_Gato]

But the catoon version has no resemblance to the comics version. And Shimmer is probably closer to the animated Jinx, then the comic Jinx.

Doesn’t matter. Jinx still has more name value thanks to the two shows (TT and TT:GO). Just mix the two versions, keep the Indian appearance but keep the pink/purple look.

[OBrianTallent]

The problem with the last iteration of the Titans, well...one of the main ones, was the execution of bringing them under the JL banner. It never should have been the JL showing up and telling them to pack their toys and go home and then giving them a baby sitter (with a for all intents and purposes a new character.) The theme of the Titans being an ancillary team to the Justice League is not a bad idea in and of itself. No one complains that X-Factor isn't the X-Men, no one complains Excalibur is a B team because they aren't labeled X-Men...they exist within their own frames of references. Having the Titans be basically the Earth based subset of the Justice League could work. It's all in the execution...Justice League to Titans: we aren't on earth as much as we like, we need you guys to be the first line of defense on planet. Call who you want, do what you do, here's Wayne money to do it.
Other wise, you need an editor who sees the potential the characters have together, a capable writer to carry out that vision and just as top tier art as JL would get. The Titans could very well be to DC what the X-Men is to Marvel again. Young Justice and Teen operate under the Titans banner...the Editors just need to see the potential and operate hands off (which I think may happen more now that Didio isn't in office that previously.)
What would I do?
Rebuild the Cult of Blood. Have Brother Blood pretty much be like Emperor Palpatine. Mother Mayhem his Darth Vader. Bring in a subset villain group (the Brotherhood of Evil now dubbed Brotherhood of Blood) to be their bounty hunters and enforcers. While this is going on H.I.V.E. is also operating in the background, they are both targeting teens and young adults to conscript, so they are at odds as well as being at odds with the Titans who want to liberate their subjects. Where Blood would be a cult disguised as a movement, HIVE is all about taking over, black market stuff, spy grade.
Other groups would be bringing back Tartarus from the Grayson series and flesh them out a little. Give them a purpose. There's a huge list of villains that can be used other than Deathstroke, Trigon and Blackfire. Besides Tartarus, there's Goth, Titans of Myth, Disruptor (who previously worked with HIVE), Children of the Sun, Dark Nemesis, Haze, The Hangmen and Harvest who REALLY was a cool looking villain with a ton of potential that got wasted by the shoddy start of the New 52...retool him a little and he could be one hell of a villain.
Who would I use? Everyone. Almost like how the New Mutants is currently being done or even the main X-Men book. If my first 4 issues are the Cult of Blood that would be Dick, Donna, Lilith, Raven, Starfire, Beastboy, Argent and Arsenal (he's a live where he is supposed to be dammit!) The HIVE team would be Flamebird, Bunker, Miss Martian, Steel and I dunno...Golden Eagle. The next team could be Dick, Flamebird, Bunker, Starfire, Beastboy and Cyborg dropping in from the League.
Utilize the entire mythology which is almost as long as the X-Men's and quite diverse as well. See them as a top tier team and give them room. Find a cult writer who has the ability like say Cullen Bunn or Chip Zdarsky or Jim Zub. Pair them with say Xermanico or Kenneth Rocafort (we might have to bring in Sideways then but that's fine lol.)
I would also pull Young Justice from Bendis and give it to one of those three as well...maybe give one Titans, one Teen Titans and one YJ. Why not, it's my world right?
They have potential as characters and as a team, it just has not been tapped correctly in the last 30 years due to many factors.

[Digifiend]

So you want Marvel writers to come in and take over the DC teen books... I'm not sure Zub would be interested... Conan the Barbarian is a dream gig for him, and it's not even a year since he finished on Champions either, which is a direct counterpart to Titans and Young Justice. Zdarsky also seems quite happy at Marvel. Bunn though? Marvel aren't currently offering him any work, so I think the former X-Men Blue writer could be interested in joining the Distinguished Competition.

[OBrianTallent]

So you want Marvel writers to come in and take over the DC teen books... I'm not sure Zub would be interested... Conan the Barbarian is a dream gig for him, and it's not even a year since he finished on Champions either, which is a direct counterpart to Titans and Young Justice. Zdarsky also seems quite happy at Marvel. Bunn though? Marvel aren't currently offering him any work, so I think the former X-Men Blue writer could be interested in joining the Distinguished Competition.

No. Not necessarily "Marvel" writers...but good writers. Sadly those are in short supply at DC right now.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The problem with the last iteration of the Titans, well...one of the main ones, was the execution of bringing them under the JL banner. It never should have been the JL showing up and telling them to pack their toys and go home and then giving them a baby sitter (with a for all intents and purposes a new character.) The theme of the Titans being an ancillary team to the Justice League is not a bad idea in and of itself. No one complains that X-Factor isn't the X-Men, no one complains Excalibur is a B team because they aren't labeled X-Men...they exist within their own frames of references. Having the Titans be basically the Earth based subset of the Justice League could work. It's all in the execution...Justice League to Titans: we aren't on earth as much as we like, we need you guys to be the first line of defense on planet. Call who you want, do what you do, here's Wayne money to do it.

But they would complain if the X-Men suddenly became a B team to the Avengers. That's why it's a bad concept. Also, that role is already filled by Young Justice. I mean, they literally have "Justice" in the name. The YJ team was the team that was about becoming heroes under the auspices of the JLA. The Titans, on the other hand, was about characters who were striking out on their own and gaining their independence. Plus, a lot of their most famous characters aren't even legacy characters.

[Dataweaver]

Speaking of pre-reboot, are we bringing back the Titans kids? Wally's family is already back, but Lian's still dead outside of Convergence, and although Donna's baby died long before the reboot, do you want to keep hers as well?

Did you see my earlier post in this thread about the Titans in 5G?

[Restingvoice]

Did you see my earlier post in this thread about the Titans in 5G?

Long thread so I skipped to the end :P

[Dataweaver]

Long thread so I skipped to the end :P

The nub of it was that in a 5G setting where the Justice League has stepped down and not been replaced by the Titans, a good way to take the Titans out of the picture would be to restore the Titans kids, and then say that the Titans have all settled down to raise them. They're still around; but they're so busy dealing with Robert and Lian and Jai and Iris and Tula (and Mar'i?) that they don't have time to go around beating up bad guys and saving the world.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Speaking as someone who admittedly has never been interested in teenage superheroes, my (hopefully) dispassionate and fair answer is - the Teen Titans is a successful IP for DC as it is, and if I had to guess their perspective: the concept isn't broken at all.

In fact it's got a lot of elasticity to it. Soap opera and angst from the classic New Teen Titans era, graduating legacy characters making way for next-gen characters (Young Justice, Johns' Teen Titans 2.0). And outside of comics, we've seen both lighter takes on the material - Teen Titans Go, and more serious takes (Young Justice).

Skimming through this thread, it's quite clear that nothing DC is likely to do will satisfy longtime fans. There's this built-in presumption that we are witnessing a journey; seeing fictional characters' lives unfold over time, in part because for a good shake of the 80s and 90s - we did. But those days are long over. Long-form continuity is a luxury of a slow-moving industry with a small install base. Today that's not what DC and Marvel are about; they're about headlines and hype, starts and restarts.

And this can apply to almost any longstanding IP - Legion, Superman, the Justice League; whichever version you like, DC is only going to model it for a few years at best, hoping it gets fast-tracked for a TV/film treatment. If not? Time for a different approach that might.

Town to town, up and down the dial.

[Ascended]

Speaking as someone who admittedly has never been interested in teenage superheroes, my (hopefully) dispassionate and fair answer is - the Teen Titans is a successful IP for DC as it is, and if I had to guess their perspective: the concept isn't broken at all.

In the grand scheme of things I suspect you're right. The Titans do fine in larger media. Hell, they're arguably one of DC's most valuable IP's still, especially if we put things like Young Justice (cartoon) under the Titans umbrella. The Justice League Action cartoon died quickly, the live action movie tanked, yet the Titans have a long running successful cartoon in GO!, which followed another successful cartoon, plus the live action show on the streaming service. They get more attention in larger media than most of the League. In the publishing however, they struggle and have for years. That's where the issues come up, when the Titans can't be self-contained and have to deal with the rest of the DCU and its continuity.

Skimming through this thread, it's quite clear that nothing DC is likely to do will satisfy longtime fans. There's this built-in presumption that we are witnessing a journey; seeing fictional characters' lives unfold over time, in part because for a good shake of the 80s and 90s - we did. But those days are long over.

I think the real problem might be less that we're no longer seeing these characters grow and evolve (though I do think that's a problem, since it breaks consumer expectation) and more that the status quo DC seems to want to put them in is a period they had already grown beyond.

Generally DC seems to want the Titans to be very young adults still figuring out how adult independence works. It very much feels like college; that 18-22 age range where you know enough to function but still have a whole lot to learn about adulthood and plenty to learn about yourself.

Which is a fine age range for characters, but we've already seen these guys grow beyond that. NTT was that 18-22 age range, and they've since grown more, becoming more capable and experienced. Wally became Flash, Nightwing took on a city of his own, some become parents, etc etc. They're more like 25-28 now; still young, but instead of being in "college" they're now young professionals with steady, stable lives and fresh, flourishing careers (or should be, if DC didn't abuse them so badly). That's a whole different vibe from 18-22. So when DC tries to handle the Titans like they're still figuring adulthood out? It feels like a step backwards.

I think if DC handled these characters as being competent and experienced adults (still young, but not baby faced) instead of as college aged kids who still go home to do laundry and have to borrow dad's car, fans would accept it a lot more. It's not that the Titans aren't growing and evolving as characters anymore (though we do expect and want that), it's that DC wants to stick them in a place they have already outgrown. Not only has their progress halted, they've actually regressed.

[caj]

Which is a fine age range for characters, but we've already seen these guys grow beyond that. NTT was that 18-22 age range, and they've since grown more, becoming more capable and experienced. Wally became Flash, Nightwing took on a city of his own, some become parents, etc etc. They're more like 25-28 now; still young, but instead of being in "college" they're now young professionals with steady, stable lives and fresh, flourishing careers (or should be, if DC didn't abuse them so badly). That's a whole different vibe from 18-22. So when DC tries to handle the Titans like they're still figuring adulthood out? It feels like a step backwards.

I think if DC handled these characters as being competent and experienced adults (still young, but not baby faced) instead of as college aged kids who still go home to do laundry and have to borrow dad's car, fans would accept it a lot more. It's not that the Titans aren't growing and evolving as characters anymore (though we do expect and want that), it's that DC wants to stick them in a place they have already outgrown. Not only has their progress halted, they've actually regressed.

I agree. I liked the lineup that Dan Abnett had but I wasn't interested in the storyline or the villains. I want BIG villains with BIG storylines. Similar to Wolfman/Perez NTT but written for them as older and better.

[Digifiend]

In the grand scheme of things I suspect you're right. The Titans do fine in larger media. Hell, they're arguably one of DC's most valuable IP's still, especially if we put things like Young Justice (cartoon) under the Titans umbrella. The Justice League Action cartoon died quickly, the live action movie tanked, yet the Titans have a long running successful cartoon in GO!, which followed another successful cartoon, plus the live action show on the streaming service. They get more attention in larger media than most of the League. In the publishing however, they struggle and have for years. That's where the issues come up, when the Titans can't be self-contained and have to deal with the rest of the DCU and its continuity.



I think the real problem might be less that we're no longer seeing these characters grow and evolve (though I do think that's a problem, since it breaks consumer expectation) and more that the status quo DC seems to want to put them in is a period they had already grown beyond.

Generally DC seems to want the Titans to be very young adults still figuring out how adult independence works. It very much feels like college; that 18-22 age range where you know enough to function but still have a whole lot to learn about adulthood and plenty to learn about yourself.

Which is a fine age range for characters, but we've already seen these guys grow beyond that. NTT was that 18-22 age range, and they've since grown more, becoming more capable and experienced. Wally became Flash, Nightwing took on a city of his own, some become parents, etc etc. They're more like 25-28 now; still young, but instead of being in "college" they're now young professionals with steady, stable lives and fresh, flourishing careers (or should be, if DC didn't abuse them so badly). That's a whole different vibe from 18-22. So when DC tries to handle the Titans like they're still figuring adulthood out? It feels like a step backwards.

I think if DC handled these characters as being competent and experienced adults (still young, but not baby faced) instead of as college aged kids who still go home to do laundry and have to borrow dad's car, fans would accept it a lot more. It's not that the Titans aren't growing and evolving as characters anymore (though we do expect and want that), it's that DC wants to stick them in a place they have already outgrown. Not only has their progress halted, they've actually regressed.

Worse, it places them in the same bracket as Young Justice - whose issue in June is actually going to be about Tim, Conner and Bart figuring out adulthood.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I saw this article about how Remender was in line to take over the X-Men in 2014 and was even approached by Marvel last year to head up the franchise (though Hickman eventually got the job). So, it got me thinking, what if DC approached him about taking some of those abandoned ideas and using them to relaunch the Titans?

[Dred]

The nub of it was that in a 5G setting where the Justice League has stepped down and not been replaced by the Titans, a good way to take the Titans out of the picture would be to restore the Titans kids, and then say that the Titans have all settled down to raise them. They're still around; but they're so busy dealing with Robert and Lian and Jai and Iris and Tula (and Mar'i?) that they don't have time to go around beating up bad guys and saving the world.

You're not going to stop superheroes from going out and saving the world because they have kids. Half the time their heroism comes from protecting their family and friends in the first place. Writing off characters because of them having kids is literally exactly what happened to Wally right when Barry came back. A convenient excuse to sweep them under the rug, together, such that every character involved is never relevant again.

[Vordan]

I saw this article about how Remender was in line to take over the X-Men in 2014 and was even approached by Marvel last year to head up the franchise (though Hickman eventually got the job). So, it got me thinking, what if DC approached him about taking some of those abandoned ideas and using them to relaunch the Titans?

Remender is never coming back to the Big 2, or at the very least he’s not coming back any time soon. Dude posted all those pitches because he’s been pretty clear that he doesn’t have any intention of seeking employment at either company.