How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Electricmastro]

Ya know something, I’m rather surprised that I didn’t think of this sooner, but, does Professor X even have any willingness to progressively integrate within human societies anymore now that he has helped build up a credible, successful empire for himself and his mutants? I suppose an answer that immediately comes to mind is that “Why go to back to bad countries like America when there’s always going to be Krakoa?” though then again, when it’s put like that, then it starts to sound a little like a defeatist attitude, doesn’t it?

[Maestro 216]

Comics don't allow for nuance at times, The X-line is famous for that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Rogue wanting her powers gone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having countermeasures for a person who can blow up a city.

But X-men comics rarely let us talk about these things without going to the extreme. America doesn't allow certain cough medicine or fertilizer to be sold because of people misusing them do people honestly think it logically possible for mutants to be around and some sort of limiter not be in place? Do people think any country will willing allow people to run around in costumes without oversight?

Liberties are allowed for the genre, Teens can't drive car before 16 and can't drink and smoke before 18 but adults are letting teens who aren't trained under 18 run around and fight crime. Has anyone ever meet a 16 or 17 year old police officer? Less restrictions let these stories happen easier many of these discussions we having are because the genre does want to flesh out certain things.

I mean the fact I praise X3 for even letting Rogue lose her powers WILLINGLY even if the motive was just I want boys to love me is at least somewhat progressive. Then, the sequel just gave Rogue her power back for reasons.

[Electricmastro]

Comics don't allow for nuance at times, The X-line is famous for that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Rogue wanting her powers gone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having countermeasures for a person who can blow up a city.

But X-men comics rarely let us talk about these things without going to the extreme. America doesn't allow certain cough medicine or fertilizer to be sold because of people misusing them do people honestly think it logically possible for mutants to be around and some sort of limiter not be in place? Do people think any country will willing allow people to run around in costumes without oversight?

Liberties are allowed for the genre, Teens can't drive car before 16 and can't drink and smoke before 18 but adults are letting teens who aren't trained under 18 run around and fight crime. Has anyone ever meet a 16 or 17 year old police officer? Less restrictions let these stories happen easier many of these discussions we having are because the genre does want to flesh out certain things.

Yep, been realizing more and more how superhero comics, at least mainstream ones, don’t really lend themselves the best when attempting to give productive overviews and analyses of real-life sensitive issues, which I think has a good time and a good place as I really don’t think a drastic, big course of action needs to be come to every single time, or in other words like how it was touched on earlier, that I’m sure it’s possible for an unpowered human in the Marvel universe to simply suggest that superpowered beings should be kept in responsible check without eventually being found out as a raving, genocidal lunatic. Given the general history of superhero comics though, it’s rare to see someone simply suggesting powers being kept in check without being portrayed or hinted at as villainous, because that seems to be how such situations are framed most often.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yep, been realizing more and more how superhero comics, at least mainstream ones, don’t really lend themselves the best when attempting to give productive overviews and analyses of real-life sensitive issues, which I think has a good time and a good place as I really don’t think a drastic, big course of action needs to be come to every single time, or in other words like how it was touched on earlier, that I’m sure it’s possible for an unpowered human in that Marvel universe to simply suggest that superpowered beings should be kept in responsible check without eventually being found out as a raving, genocidal lunatic. Given the general history of superhero comics though, it’s rare to see someone simply suggesting powers being kept in check without being portrayed or hinted at as villainous, because that seems to be how such situations are framed most often.

I think a lot of the issue is that the superhero genre itself deals in and is often dominated by extremes. Superheroes are depicted as an extreme, although necessary, response to crime, terror, and other evil(s) that would completely overwhelm humanity on both an individual and institutional/societal level, while supervillains are another such extreme in response to the existence of superheroes. As such, the genre seems to have an inbuilt skepticism of moderation and restraint, especially where the really good stuff, from a dramatic standpoint, resides in seeing both heroes and villains cut loose. Of course, that makes it difficult to present a more balanced portrayal of how superhumans would impact the world and society in which they live, because the temptation is always going to be to go for the most dramatic angle or exaggerated outcome. That's just what makes good entertainment, apparently, even if it's not exactly a realistic portrayal of how superhumans would be viewed and treated by the world at large.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Ya know something, I’m rather surprised that I didn’t think of this sooner, but, does Professor X even have any willingness to progressively integrate within human societies anymore now that he has helped build up a credible, successful empire for himself and his mutants? I suppose an answer that immediately comes to mind is that “Why go to back to bad countries like America when there’s always going to be Krakoa?” though then again, when it’s put like that, then it starts to sound a little like a defeatist attitude, doesn’t it?

Nope, that Charles is dead. He's completely give up on humanity, it's why Magneto is the face of Krakoa.

[Zelena]

I think a lot of the issue is that the superhero genre itself deals in and is often dominated by extremes. Superheroes are depicted as an extreme, although necessary, response to crime, terror, and other evil(s) that would completely overwhelm humanity on both an individual and institutional/societal level, while supervillains are another such extreme in response to the existence of superheroes. As such, the genre seems to have an inbuilt skepticism of moderation and restraint, especially where the really good stuff, from a dramatic standpoint, resides in seeing both heroes and villains cut loose. Of course, that makes it difficult to present a more balanced portrayal of how superhumans would impact the world and society in which they live, because the temptation is always going to be to go for the most dramatic angle or exaggerated outcome. That's just what makes good entertainment, apparently, even if it's not exactly a realistic portrayal of how superhumans would be viewed and treated by the world at large.

It hasn't been always the case… Mostly at the beginning, there were elements more realistic while more light-hearted.
I'm thinking about Spider-man and the way he was treated, both praised and despised. People didn't resurrect back then and there weren't extravagant powers.

[Zelena]

Do people think any country will willing allow people to run around in costumes without oversight?

In UK, I'm sure there wouldn't be any problems…

[Su_Whisterfield]

In UK, I'm sure there wouldn't be any problems…

38111B53-C7A9-431A-B746-9F20CC3772C4.jpg

But they must wear a helmet.

Ah, I did so love Excalibur.

[Steel Inquisitor]

It hasn't been always the case… Mostly at the beginning, there were elements more realistic while more light-hearted.
I'm thinking about Spider-man and the way he was treated, both praised and despised. People didn't resurrect back then and there weren't extravagant powers.

Characters and events are sensationalised since it's adventure comics. Marvel knows readers want the characters to fight and will take the slightest opportunity to have super-heroes fight each other. It's a Marvel tradition.

[adamTPTK]

They didn't go to war with the Avengers, it was the other way around. The Avengers showed up on Utopia, in force, and demanded they turn over a mutant teenager (Hope) or else. Something Cable had expressly told Cyclops would result in the destruction of all life on Earth. The Avengers then continued to attack up to and including assaulting kids who were playing video games in order to kidnap Hope. The P5 did not go after the Avengers until after they were repeatedly attacked.

Now I've no desire to go down the rabbit hole on debating the steaming hot mess that was AvX. I'm fully willing to admit that everyone involved took turns juggling the idiot ball and were repeatedly bludgeoned with plot induced stupidity beat stick but, the Avengers were unambiguously the aggressors and in the end their grand plan for stopping the Phoenix was doing what the X-Men had wanted from the very beginning.

I don't even think they brought it up even once during the whole event just to make Avengers (or simply because of how incompetent editorial seemed to be) look good.

[LordUltimus]

AvX had, like, eight writers, it was doomed to be a mess of contradictions.

[Huntsman Spider]

Nope, that Charles is dead. He's completely give up on humanity, it's why Magneto is the face of Krakoa.

Funny enough, if you believe him in X-Men #4, he hasn't given up on humanity as much as it would seem he has. It's just that at this point, his overtures toward humanity are more of a carrot-and-stick thing, using a very heavy stick in the person of Magneto, who is there as proof that Xavier's serious about building a mutant nation and won't concede to humanity as he has in the past, at least not without humanity making serious concessions of its own. That's the lesson he's learned after years of attempting to forge a path to peaceful coexistence with humankind and being violently rejected each and every time.

[pkingdom]

Why did the X-men think the Phoenix was coming to help them? It destroyed multiple planets on the way, so I can see why the Avengers were being jumpy from the get-go.

Relying on a stupid future vision from Cable is BS, especially if they never brought it up again. These 'we have to do (insert crazy thing) to avoid (bad future #28) plots need to die in a fire. They've lost all meaning given how many revolved around Apocalypse. Scott and Cable are now taking orders from the man!

[pkingdom]

Funny enough, if you believe him in X-Men #4, he hasn't given up on humanity as much as it would seem he has. It's just that at this point, his overtures toward humanity are more of a carrot-and-stick thing, using a very heavy stick in the person of Magneto, who is there as proof that Xavier's serious about building a mutant nation and won't concede to humanity as he has in the past, at least not without humanity making serious concessions of its own. That's the lesson he's learned after years of attempting to forge a path to peaceful coexistence with humankind and being violently rejected each and every time.

Honestly at this point Charles feels more like his Ultimate Universe counterpart. He's even more patronizing than he used to be. I know that you are right, and that's what that speech was supposed to mean, but having him say that flanked by Apocalypse and Magneto, who literally joked about ending civilizations minutes prior, makes the whole thing ring hollow. And his mission statement/temper tantrum in HoXPoX had him saying that their goal is no longer acceptance, but replacement.

Or, to put it bluntly, Magneto was right. Just instead of using war first, they start with subversion and subterfuge. According to Moira, war is inevitable, so they're preparing for that by consolidating mutant power in one place. Or at least that was my interpretation

[spirit2011]

Why did the X-men think the Phoenix was coming to help them? It destroyed multiple planets on the way, so I can see why the Avengers were being jumpy from the get-go.

Relying on a stupid future vision from Cable is BS, especially if they never brought it up again. These 'we have to do (insert crazy thing) to avoid (bad future #28) plots need to die in a fire. They've lost all meaning given how many revolved around Apocalypse. Scott and Cable are now taking orders from the man!

X-men stopped making sense