DC Editor Brian Cunningham remembers Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21

[Prof. Warren]

The Simpsons has been on for 30 years and is a regular ratings juggernaut, but you rarely if ever hear people say seasons 11-30 are any good, other than a few episodes

Not the same.

One, given the way ASM sells, it'd be like if The Simpsons was still a Top Ten show thirty years in - not just a show with a devoted core audience.

Two, the continued high quality of ASM is often cited. Slott's run is frequently hailed as one of the defining runs for the character. So, it's common to hear fans and critics praise the last ten years of Spidey. Not just "Well, it used to be good a long time ago but it's still around, you know, because..."

And Three, that slam would have been far more fitting thirty years into ASM's own history, when it was languishing in the doldrums of the mid-'90s, prior to the creative comeback of the JMS era.

ASM also had several down periods largely because of OMD, it took Superior to turn things around again...and that required switching Peter out for a year.

A lot of fans would argue that Brand New Day was a refreshing shot in the arm for the book, as was the proper beginning of the solo Slott era, Big Time.

Given that you've said that writers who don't believe in the marriage shouldn't be writing Spider-Man and that the only way forward is to reinstate the marriage and that anything else is uncreative, I think it's safe to say you have a very myopic view of what Spider-Man should be. Luckily, you have the old timey newspaper strip and - for now, at least - Renew Your Vows to scratch that nostalgic itch for you.

[TheCape]

Not the same.

One, given the way ASM sells, it'd be like if The Simpsons was still a Top Ten show thirty years in - not just a show with a devoted core audience.

Two, the continued high quality of ASM is often cited. Slott's run is frequently hailed as one of the defining runs for the character. So, it's common to hear fans and critics praise the last ten years of Spidey. Not just "Well, it used to be good a long time ago but it's still around, you know, because..."

And Three, that slam would have been far more fitting thirty years into ASM's own history, when it was languishing in the doldrums of the mid-'90s, prior to the creative comeback of the JMS era.



A lot of fans would argue that Brand New Day was a refreshing shot in the arm for the book, as was the proper beginning of the solo Slott era, Big Time.

Given that you've said that writers who don't believe in the marriage shouldn't be writing Spider-Man and that the only way forward is to reinstate the marriage and that anything else is uncreative, I think it's safe to say you have a very myopic view of what Spider-Man should be. Luckily, you have the old timey newspaper strip and - for now, at least - Renew Your Vows to scratch that nostalgic itch for you.

Shot in the arm?, no it wasn't, it was a back to basics for the characther after they spend the 05 to 07 trying to mess with his status quo in order to lead into one more day, if anything the immediate pre-OMD was the closest thing to a shot in the arm for the franchise considering that we were having stories about Peter being a fugitive for the law for revealing his identity, that was done to led into a story that would lead to a status quo more close to the 80s, if anything the actual shot in the arm for the franchise was the "Big Time" story that started to explore new territory again.

[Prof. Warren]

Shot in the arm?, no it wasn't, it was a back to basics for the characther after they spend the 05 to 07 trying to mess with his status quo in order to lead into one more day, if anything the immediate pre-OMD was the closest thing to a shot in the arm for the franchise considering that we were having stories about Peter being a fugitive for the law for revealing his identity, that was done to led into a story that would lead to a status quo more close to the 80s, if anything the actual shot in the arm for the franchise was the "Big Time" story that started to explore new territory again.

Black in Black was ok but overall the JMS era was getting stale. The three times a month shipping and rotating writers and artists of Brand New Day livened up ASM. Not every arc was gold, no, but the accelerated pace of the book and the mix of styles brought some fresh air to ASM. I do agree that things got even better when Big Time began but I still like the energy that Brand New Day brought.

[Kevinroc]

Not the same.

One, given the way ASM sells, it'd be like if The Simpsons was still a Top Ten show thirty years in - not just a show with a devoted core audience.

Two, the continued high quality of ASM is often cited. Slott's run is frequently hailed as one of the defining runs for the character. So, it's common to hear fans and critics praise the last ten years of Spidey. Not just "Well, it used to be good a long time ago but it's still around, you know, because..."

And Three, that slam would have been far more fitting thirty years into ASM's own history, when it was languishing in the doldrums of the mid-'90s, prior to the creative comeback of the JMS era.

Explain to me how the Spider-Marriage ruined Maximum Carnage.

[Prof. Warren]

Explain to me how the Spider-Marriage ruined Maximum Carnage.

Is this a trick question? Are we trying to say that Maximum Carnage is good?

[Prof. Warren]

...Also, I don't think the spider-marriage "ruined" anything.

I don't hate it, I just think the book works better with Peter being single.

[Miles To Go]

Is this a trick question? Are we trying to say that Maximum Carnage is good?

It's not as bad as people let on.

[TheCape]

Black in Black was ok but overall the JMS era was getting stale. The three times a month shipping and rotating writers and artists of Brand New Day livened up ASM. Not every arc was gold, no, but the accelerated pace of the book and the mix of styles brought some fresh air to ASM. I do agree that things got even better when Big Time began but I still like the energy that Brand New Day brought.

It wasn't only Back in Black thougth, you had him dying and developing new powers for some reason, having to deal with the unmasking Civil War, living with the Avengers, i thougth that most of those ideas were lousy, poorly thougth and i generally think that JMS second half is mostly bad with some good moments here and there, but i would hardly call it stale, at the very least i was interested in they would bring everything back to normal because the whole thing reeked to reset since the inception. As for BND, i give you that it has a sense of energy, but on futher inspection i find it mostly even more mediocre and lousy that what we have before, but YMMV on that.

[Kevinroc]

Is this a trick question? Are we trying to say that Maximum Carnage is good?

If you're going to blame the Spider-marriage for the quality of 1990s Spider-Man comics, you're gonna need to explain how it was responsible for Maximum Carnage being what it is.

[Tuck]

The 90s were just generally bad for mainstream comics. I don't know how you isolate any one factor, other than maybe the vague notion of chasing the speculator dollar and taking TDKR and Watchmen as suggestions rather than deconstructionist critiques.

[Prof. Warren]

If you're going to blame the Spider-marriage for the quality of 1990s Spider-Man comics, you're gonna need to explain how it was responsible for Maximum Carnage being what it is.

I never said the spider-marriage was responsible for the state of Spider-Man comics in the '90s. There are many factors that led to the book faltering creatively during the '90s. It wasn't a very good time for comics in general, not just Spidey.

JMS had a great run - well, mostly great - and the marriage was a part of that. I just think that, ultimately, the book simply works better with Peter single.

[Prof. Warren]

It's not as bad as people let on.

I enjoy it but it's pure schlock. Sometimes that's exactly what you want, though, and every now and then I pull the collection out to revisit.

[Miles To Go]

I enjoy it but it's pure schlock. Sometimes that's exactly what you want, though, and every now and then I pull the collection out to revisit.

I thought it had interesting moments.

As a kid, I wasn't very aware of Cloak and Dagger and I totally bought into Dagger's odd "death", and was pleasantly surprised when she returned later on in the story at the eleventh hour.

I also liked Felicia's arc through the story, siding with Venom and then retreating for a while before reemerging to help conclude the fight against Carnage.

Mary Jane had an ace character moment standing up to "Richard Parker" when he started losing faith in the heroes, and she has roller coaster interactions with Peter which leads to an empowering pep talk from her in the concluding chapter.

And the ending is quite touching, with Peter walking past Harry and Norman's graves, this whole saga was basically him processing Harry's death at the time.

[Kevinroc]

I never said the spider-marriage was responsible for the state of Spider-Man comics in the '90s. There are many factors that led to the book faltering creatively during the '90s. It wasn't a very good time for comics in general, not just Spidey.

JMS had a great run - well, mostly great - and the marriage was a part of that. I just think that, ultimately, the book simply works better with Peter single.

I think it's fine if you enjoy the Slott run or are excited about the upcoming Spencer run or think that the book works better with a single Peter.

But I begrudge no one for having issues with the manner in which the marriage came to an end, or Marvel's (often lack of) acknowledgement of said story that brought the marriage to an end. And while I have said I don't think it is the worst story in Marvel's publishing history, I think it (alongside its sequel, OMIT) would certainly make a Top 10 worst Marvel stories. And I'm not the only one who thinks things like this.

[Scott Taylor]

...Also, I don't think the spider-marriage "ruined" anything.

I don't hate it, I just think the book works better with Peter being single.

You're a good man, Charlie Brown.